Weird steering problem

[jacquesmm]

There are many threads about sloppy steering and tire pressure but I never found an explanation for what I experience. I have this problem since I bought the unit 10 months ago (Accolade Entegra 37TS, S2RV chassis, Michelin tires).
At the start of a trip, the steering is very imprecise: I need two hands on the wheel, constant corrections. After about one hour, the steering gets better and after about two hours, I can steer easily with two fingers, coffee cup in the other hand.
I went through all the steps: alignment, Safe T Plus installed, tire pressure according to Michelin table after CAT scale weight, tested with different tire pressures etc.
All that made the steering better in general but it is still sloppy when cold and almost perfect after two hours.
My first explanation was that it got better when tires warmed up and P increased. I measured pressure hot (after 1 hour). The next day, I inflated the tires to the hot pressure but the same thing happens.
Another point: let's say that I drive 2 hours and the steering is good after that "warm up", then I stop for 10 minutes. When I restart, the steering is not too good anymore but after a while, let's say 15 minutes, it gets better and feels like it was before I stopped.
I have an idea of what it could be but would like to hear from those with more experience.

[EA37TS]

First I heard of this issue. We have over 16k miles on our 2020 Accolade 37TS with no steering problems at all.

[jacquesmm]

Could it be the steering box or any other component of the steering that tightens up as it becomes warm?

I have read so many reports from users who say that their unit drives like a dream and others who say that it wanders all over the place but I have some of each: it drives perfectly well after a couple of hours but when cold, it goes all over the place.

[Senecabound]

One question, are you towing a vehicle when it happens. I've seen it before where the towed vehicle had the steering locked. This creates a counter force when driving the motorhome depending on the direction of the front wheels when they lock and the direction you're aiming the motorhome. Just a thought.

[jacquesmm]

Yes I am towing but why does the behavior changes after a couple hours of driving? Also, if the steering was locked, the tires would burn very quickly and there is no sign of that. This is so disturbing that I began to use an infra red thermometer to check tires and they are all all the same temperature.
Thank you for trying to help.

[RPR]

I would have it checked for air bubbles in the line or pump. Air may have not been flushed out of the system when installed. Cold air would cause low pressure and correct pressure when air heats up and expands.

[jacquesmm]

Thank you. That makes sense. I had air in boat steering systems and it made them sloppy because air in the lines is compressible. If, after a while, the bubbles move, the hydraulic system will work much better.
I'll check that tomorrow and see if I can bleed it.
Very good idea, thanks again.

[Semix-Hex]

I read somewhere that the new Michelin tires need some time to wear in. Our new rig was a nightmare to drive on hwy 84 towards Pullman. 4604 miles later, it drives very well without the squirrelies.

[jacquesmm]

Air in the system or Michelin tires having to "settle", it feels like the problem is gone now at 5,600 miles. I will still bleed the steering system tomorrow, just to be certain.
If it is a Michelin problem, it is unacceptable.

[Happy wife / happy life]

I would also lean towards the power steering system. Are the hoses ( pressure and return ) routed correctly? Are they the correct hoses? Do you have the correct fluid type in the system? Does either one of the hoses seem to have a soft spot when the system is cold? I would also contact Michelin and ask if they have had issues/complaints with your particular tire. Good luck,I hope you can get to the bottom of this problem.

[jacquesmm]

Problem solved: It almost certainly was air in the steering system. I did check , bleed and it drives perfectly right now. I drove close to 1,000 miles and the problem is gone.
Thank you all for your suggestions and help. This forum is better than most Jayco's dealers.

[Cturrisi]

Originally Posted by jacquesmm

Problem solved: It almost certainly was air in the steering system. I did check , bleed and it drives perfectly right now. I drove close to 1,000 miles and the problem is gone.
Thank you all for your suggestions and help. This forum is better than most Jayco's dealers.

Can you provide a quick explanation of how you bled the steering system? I have done similar things as you and they all improved the steering feel but it still feels vague and doesn’t improve with time. Every time I pass or get passed by a truck it feels like the coach is “pulled” towards the truck the requires steering correction.

Thank you

[RPR]

You will get “pulled” towards the big truck to a certain extent when a big truck passes you. The faster he is going the more so. A certain amount of air vacuum is created between you when he goes by you. The air sets both vehicles as one and goes around. The vacuum at the rear tries to pull the air out that is between you.

[jacquesmm]

Correct, there will always be some effect of the draft of a big truck.

The bleeding I did is very simple. You are supposed to lift the front end on jacks but I used the Equalizer. With the wheels up, turn the steering wheel one way, all the way until the stop. Then full turn the other way, then left again and right and left, maybe 20 times total.

[Cturrisi]

I do understand the vacuum pull created but it seems like it takes a bunch of steering corrections to stay straight and even after the truck passes it takes two or three more small corrections to stop what feels like trailer sway (but I don’t have a trailer). Maybe this is normal with this size rv?

[Cturrisi]

Thank you for the explanation. When I get the rv back from the dealer for them performing warranty work I will try this.

[jacquesmm]

Originally Posted by Cturrisi

I do understand the vacuum pull created but it seems like it takes a bunch of steering corrections to stay straight and even after the truck passes it takes two or three more small corrections to stop what feels like trailer sway (but I don’t have a trailer). Maybe this is normal with this size rv?

That sounds a lot like my steering behavior some months ago. Right now, one correction is what it takes and in many cases, I feel the push and the pull of a big truck but it does not require any correction.
Earlier, I corrected once one side and nothing happened, I added a little more correction and it moved but I always had to correct to the other side then again and again until the next truck or next bump in the road. I thought of taking a video: I was always correcting left and right, moving that wheel every second. I would say about 1 turn per second or more.
When we took delivery of the unit, we could not stay in our lane on the highway. Over the first 30 miles, I ended up two times over the grass until I slowed down to 50 mph.
Right now, I don't move the steering wheel for minutes at a time. I can let go of the wheel or drive with 2 fingers.
The big improvement was the bleeding of the steering. I guess that I had air or foam in the lines.
Other points that improved the steering, chronologically:
- wheel balancing
- alignment loaded for travel
- adjust tire pressure to Michelin's specs
- addition of a Safe T Plus

[Cturrisi]

Originally Posted by jacquesmm

That sounds a lot like my steering behavior some months ago. Right now, one correction is what it takes and in many cases, I feel the push and the pull of a big truck but it does not require any correction.
Earlier, I corrected once one side and nothing happened, I added a little more correction and it moved but I always had to correct to the other side then again and again until the next truck or next bump in the road. I thought of taking a video: I was always correcting left and right, moving that wheel every second. I would say about 1 turn per second or more.
When we took delivery of the unit, we could not stay in our lane on the highway. Over the first 30 miles, I ended up two times over the grass until I slowed down to 50 mph.
Right now, I don't move the steering wheel for minutes at a time. I can let go of the wheel or drive with 2 fingers.
The big improvement was the bleeding of the steering. I guess that I had air or foam in the lines.
Other points that improved the steering, chronologically:
- wheel balancing
- alignment loaded for travel
- adjust tire pressure to Michelin's specs
- addition of a Safe T Plus

Yep. Everything you said sounds like mine. I have done everything except safe t plus, which is getting installed now. Everything I’ve done has improved the steering and I can now drive with one hand, but it still requires small corrections when passing trucks, where originally I was like you sawing at the wheel. Funny thing is I’ve never named a vehicle and within the first 30 miles she got the name “sloppy sally”. On our first long trip, my wife asked several times if we made a mistake buying such a large RV if they all handle like ours did. She saw me concentrating very hard at keeping the coach in our lane. After that trip the alignment, tire balancing and pressures were all completed under warranty and they all helped. Hoping the safe t plus and bleeding The power steering will make it an enjoyable ride.