LiFePO4 Battery Poll

[TomC_AZ]

Agree that the ones with low temp offer a higher level of potential performance or life. The temp is not just the external air temp of freezing though it’s the internal battery temp which takes some time to get to. Along with that depending on how it’s made it may stop functioning or it may continue to function just lessor time. Depending on any damage or level of damage.

I have batteries that don’t have temp. My first I wanted it to be something I didn’t care about and wanted to check on ability to use it in real life experience for me. I got the eco-worthy 100ah for $250. Now it is not a horrible battery and it’s outside in the weather and has been charged at camp in freezing temps. But it still works. I wouldn’t totally recommend the battery but if it’s all you can or want to afford it totally works and would last at least as long as a AGM which cost the same (at the time of my purchase).

I have friends with Lion and Enduro and BattleBorn. All are great but $$$ or $$$$. I have two HQST solar batteries that are being delivered next week. They have all the features and they work but they are on sale for $379 right now. I figured get them and use. They are also very small in comparison to some others (same size as lion). I can fit four of them into the same space as one 200ah Ampere time battery. I will be posting some info and tests from them. At some point I may switch to other brands but I also am looking at other uses for home and non trailer camping, the size mattered.

Great discussion, hope it helps others as well!

[Yooper906]

Originally Posted by TomC_AZ

Agree that the ones with low temp offer a higher level of potential performance or life. The temp is not just the external air temp of freezing though it’s the internal battery temp which takes some time to get to.

Temperature is one of my problems with lithium, the other is the cost of a heated lithium battery.

I'm in a cold area, tonight is 9 deg f tomorrow night is 7 deg f etc. I know it's almost April, but it is what it is.We are out of the minus 20 and minus 30 temps, I can understand not using them in that weather. We use this camper for ice fishing tournaments, sled dog races, etc, and we would be using them for 4 or 5 days at each event. I'm thinking I'm in the wrong area for lithium batteries being damaged by cold weather charging, without paying 500-700 bucks per battery for the self heated ones. Maybe my best bet would be to stick to lead acid deep cycles and my generator. If I damaged a $600 dollar lithium battery or 2 by charging it from a generator way below freezing, I'd have to kick my own butt for being stupid.
Thanks for any advice.

[HAL9001]

Originally Posted by TomC_AZ

Agree that the ones with low temp offer a higher level of potential performance or life. The temp is not just the external air temp of freezing though it’s the internal battery temp which takes some time to get to. Along with that depending on how it’s made it may stop functioning or it may continue to function just lessor time. Depending on any damage or level of damage.

I have batteries that don’t have temp. My first I wanted it to be something I didn’t care about and wanted to check on ability to use it in real life experience for me. I got the eco-worthy 100ah for $250. Now it is not a horrible battery and it’s outside in the weather and has been charged at camp in freezing temps. But it still works. I wouldn’t totally recommend the battery but if it’s all you can or want to afford it totally works and would last at least as long as a AGM which cost the same (at the time of my purchase).

I have friends with Lion and Enduro and BattleBorn. All are great but $$$ or $$$$. I have two HQST solar batteries that are being delivered next week. They have all the features and they work but they are on sale for $379 right now. I figured get them and use. They are also very small in comparison to some others (same size as lion). I can fit four of them into the same space as one 200ah Ampere time battery. I will be posting some info and tests from them. At some point I may switch to other brands but I also am looking at other uses for home and non trailer camping, the size mattered.

Great discussion, hope it helps others as well!

You can fairly easily add a low temp sensor cutoff between the charging circuit and the battery if you already own one without it if you feel it's an issue. If not, then don't bother with it.

It does take a good amount of time for a battery to reach the freezing point internally especially if the battery is in a decent compartment. This is why I added insulation to my battery compartment. It will take more time at sub-freezing temps to reach freezing and hopefully, the ambient temperature will go above freezing before that happens. But it only buys some time, nothing more.

[HAL9001]

Originally Posted by Yooper906

Temperature is one of my problems with lithium, the other is the cost of a heated lithium battery.

I'm in a cold area, tonight is 9 deg f tomorrow night is 7 deg f etc. I know it's almost April, but it is what it is.We are out of the minus 20 and minus 30 temps, I can understand not using them in that weather. We use this camper for ice fishing tournaments, sled dog races, etc, and we would be using them for 4 or 5 days at each event. I'm thinking I'm in the wrong area for lithium batteries being damaged by cold weather charging, without paying 500-700 bucks per battery for the self heated ones. Maybe my best bet would be to stick to lead acid deep cycles and my generator. If I damaged a $600 dollar lithium battery or 2 by charging it from a generator way below freezing, I'd have to kick my own butt for being stupid.
Thanks for any advice.

You can't inadvertently damage a LiFePO4 battery in cold weather if it has a low temp cutoff. This is why the better designs include one.

If you have some good electrical DIY skills, you can add an external heater to any LiFePO4 battery for very little cost. There are online instructions on how to do this with off-the-shelf parts.

But the one place lead-acids still have some merit left is in constantly cold applications, especially very cold conditions well below freezing. They work well all by themselves in these conditions whereas LiFePO4s need additional help to charge in the cold.

[rsday75]

I have 9, 40 amp hour Valence RT Batteries.
They had been left uncharged and went into self protect mode. They are used to power hospital gear. They were going to be recycled as no one wanted to take the time to wake the batteries.
I got them free. They have BMS built in.
I had to charge each at 1 amp for 24 hours to wake the BMS. Then charged each at 14.6 volts and 1 amp until cell balancing finished.
Then paralleled them.
My tests show that even with a fair number of cycles, the pack is still around 340 amp hours total capacity.
The 9 fit perfectly in my front battery area.
This combined with 480 watts of solar has been awesome.
So, yes, for free and a bit of time investment, I would do it again. 😊

[gregcass]

Hello; My wife and I have a 2020 Eagle 317RLOK. In 2021, we took it to Future Solutions in Elkhart, IN for a solar and lithium upgrade. It REALLY adds to our capability. They did an OUTSTANDING job of installation.

1. Which brand did you go with ? Battle Borne
2. Size? 100 Ah. (Model GC-2. Bars vs. battery posts)
3. How many batteries? Initially 6, then 10 (see below)
4. Would buy same again? Yes
5. Have you had other LiFePO4 batteries and changed brand? We initially went with six batteries. We had some camping in very hot midwest conditions. Using one of our air conditioners at night (really hot outside) brought them down too low by about 4:00 am. We had another trip planned through the Elkhart area, so we contacted Future Solutions and asked them to add four more batteries. The day we arrived, they had used all of their stock of Battle Borne batteries (except two) on other solar builds. So, after discussion and confirmation calls to Battle Borne, we elected to get two DragonFly Energy GC-2 batteries with the two new Battle Borne batteries. We confirmed they are the same identical battery, just different color cases. The Dragonfly batteries were in stock at FS for their OEM builds on another brand of RV.

[Yooper906]

Originally Posted by HAL9001

You can't inadvertently damage a LiFePO4 battery in cold weather if it has a low temp cutoff. This is why the better designs include one.

If you have some good electrical DIY skills, you can add an external heater to any LiFePO4 battery for very little cost. There are online instructions on how to do this with off-the-shelf parts.

But the one place lead-acids still have some merit left is in constantly cold applications, especially very cold conditions well below freezing. They work well all by themselves in these conditions whereas LiFePO4s need additional help to charge in the cold.

Here is my thoughts, I'll keep the two lead acid deep cycles for cold weather camping, which is completely dry camping in the snow. And look to buying a 100 amp lithium for above freezing temps. This is doable, is my thinking o.k.?

[RGD615]

Originally Posted by TomC_AZ

Moderators, how would we get a sticky post and which area might be best for this?

I am very curious with a lot of various talk on here and other forums it might be good to have some info on experience people have had with the different brands etc... I know I am pondering and wondering about this question right now. i.e. is a battle born or lion energy worth the high cost for the size or are the middle of the road batteries a better buy or are the much cheaper ones an even better option? My hope the pole might help identify a brand or size that is just great and ones that we all might just want to stay away from...

Questions for the poll, for those who have taken the leap to LiFePO4 batteries:

1. Which brand did you go with (not why it was chosen, just which brand)?
2. Size 100ah, 170ah, 200ah, 300ah or other?
3. How many batteries?
4. Would buy same again, i.e. good experience (Yes/No)?
5. Have you had other LiFePO4 batteries and changed brand? (this time you can provide the why)

If you would want you can also share good/bad experience with them.

Brand Big Battery
Number 2
Size 170 ah each
Buy again Yes
They are serviceable, built in... yet assessable fuse, Anderson connectors, great display

[SkipperD]

Battle Born
2 x 100
I'd buy again.
My first LiFePos

[Lyonrc]

1. JITA
2. Size 300ah
3. 2 ea = 600ah
4. YES/YES
5. No

Very good experience so far. Setup for
boondocking
__________________
2022 Jayco Eagle FW 317RLOK
2018 RAM 2500 diesel, 4x4 off road HD

[Noblewk]

1. Which brand did you go with (not why it was chosen, just which brand)?
AIMS
2. Size 100ah, 170ah, 200ah, 300ah or other?
200ah
3. How many batteries?
2
4. Would buy same again, i.e. good experience (Yes/No)?YES

5. Have you had other LiFePO4 batteries and changed brand? (this time you can provide the why)

Yes, built 2 500ah batteries, each fit into a standard milk crate. These fit into the batter box of our 4114.

If you live in cold weather, look at heated plant mats and put them on a temp sensor.

[Wyka2020RVlife]

I’ve looked into LiPo because I wanted something lighter and with easier maintenance. I thought an easy 12 volt switch out would work but I learned it’s not so simple. you really cant charge a LiPo by connecting to shore power. My converter is basically combined with my whole switchboard. I don’t want to swap all of that out. I looked up the specs of the model number and it’s only compatible with lead acid or AMG. I don’t really boondock, except at Nascar in Dover, even then I bring a small generator so I guess it’s not worth it. I will probably just upgrade to an AMG battery for the less maintenance aspect.

[fillwa]

Originally Posted by gregcass

Hello; My wife and I have a 2020 Eagle 317RLOK. In 2021, we took it to Future Solutions in Elkhart, IN for a solar and lithium upgrade. It REALLY adds to our capability. They did an OUTSTANDING job of installation.

1. Which brand did you go with ? Battle Borne
2. Size? 100 Ah. (Model GC-2. Bars vs. battery posts)
3. How many batteries? Initially 6, then 10 (see below)
4. Would buy same again? Yes
5. Have you had other LiFePO4 batteries and changed brand? We initially went with six batteries. We had some camping in very hot midwest conditions. Using one of our air conditioners at night (really hot outside) brought them down too low by about 4:00 am. We had another trip planned through the Elkhart area, so we contacted Future Solutions and asked them to add four more batteries. The day we arrived, they had used all of their stock of Battle Borne batteries (except two) on other solar builds. So, after discussion and confirmation calls to Battle Borne, we elected to get two DragonFly Energy GC-2 batteries with the two new Battle Borne batteries. We confirmed they are the same identical battery, just different color cases. The Dragonfly batteries were in stock at FS for their OEM builds on another brand of RV.

I am interested in understanding:

A) Total cost of your 10 battery solar setup.

B) Total weight of 10 batteries.

C) Impact to mobility of RV

Thanks

[HAL9001]

Originally Posted by Yooper906

Here is my thoughts, I'll keep the two lead acid deep cycles for cold weather camping, which is completely dry camping in the snow. And look to buying a 100 amp lithium for above freezing temps. This is doable, is my thinking o.k.?

You can now buy a heated LiFePO4 battery for only $60 over the cost of an unheated one. It even includes a BlueTooth feature that allows you to easily monitor the battery. This feature alone would cost well over $100 to add to a battery that didn't have it. So at only $60 more for both a heater and monitor, this is a no-brainer.

With the heat feature, you can use a LiFePO4 in freezing conditions so there would be no need to keep the lead-acids. If you do keep them, you should include a switch to isolate them from the LiFePO4 when charging. You shouldn't charge a lead-acid and a LiFePO4 together on the same circuit.

[HAL9001]

Originally Posted by Wyka2020RVlife

I’ve looked into LiPo because I wanted something lighter and with easier maintenance. I thought an easy 12 volt switch out would work but I learned it’s not so simple. you really cant charge a LiPo by connecting to shore power. My converter is basically combined with my whole switchboard. I don’t want to swap all of that out. I looked up the specs of the model number and it’s only compatible with lead acid or AMG. I don’t really boondock, except at Nascar in Dover, even then I bring a small generator so I guess it’s not worth it. I will probably just upgrade to an AMG battery for the less maintenance aspect.

Many newer converters have an internal switch that changes them from a lead-acid charge mode to a LiFePO4 charge mode. Always first check to see if your converter has this feature.

Even if it doesn't have this feature, you can charge a LiFePO4 with a converter designed only for lead-acid batteries provided that it does not use an automatic equalization mode. You can find this out by checking the converter's manual or contacting the manufacturer. Some do, some don't use an equalization mode.

If it doesn't use an equalization mode, it won't hurt a LiFePO4, it simply won't charge it to its absolute fullest potential. Kind of like filling a car's gas tank almost to the top but not quite.

Some people think that the OEM converter is a fully integrated part of their circuit panel. However, it's often just a module within it that can be removed and replaced with a converter that can charge LiFePO4s. Even if it couldn't be removed/replaced or you didn't want to bother removing it, it can simply be disconnected and replaced with an upgraded converter designed for LiFePO4s located elsewhere.

There is always a solution if you want to upgrade to LiFePO4s. You're never stuck having to use only lead-acids.

[MichaelO]

Originally Posted by gregcass

Hello; My wife and I have a 2020 Eagle 317RLOK. In 2021, we took it to Future Solutions in Elkhart, IN for a solar and lithium upgrade. It REALLY adds to our capability. They did an OUTSTANDING job of installation.

1. Which brand did you go with ? Battle Borne
2. Size? 100 Ah. (Model GC-2. Bars vs. battery posts)
3. How many batteries? Initially 6, then 10 (see below)
4. Would buy same again? Yes
5. Have you had other LiFePO4 batteries and changed brand? We initially went with six batteries. We had some camping in very hot midwest conditions. Using one of our air conditioners at night (really hot outside) brought them down too low by about 4:00 am. We had another trip planned through the Elkhart area, so we contacted Future Solutions and asked them to add four more batteries. The day we arrived, they had used all of their stock of Battle Borne batteries (except two) on other solar builds. So, after discussion and confirmation calls to Battle Borne, we elected to get two DragonFly Energy GC-2 batteries with the two new Battle Borne batteries. We confirmed they are the same identical battery, just different color cases. The Dragonfly batteries were in stock at FS for their OEM builds on another brand of RV.

Dragonfly and Battle Born are both n the same building. I see the name for each above the doors of the building while driving by.

[MichaelO]

I wonder if some of Battle Borns Game Changer batteries could be mounted between the frame rails under the trailer.
My trailers under side is covered. I could pull back some of the covering to mount and install them and then cover them back up to protect them.

[TomC_AZ]

@Wyka2020RVlife
As HAL said LA/AGM converter chargers will charge LiFePO4. What converter do you have and what year and model is your RV?

The weight savings is great along with the almost double usable power.

@fillwa
I do not know everything gregcass added, when you add that many batteries there definitely more involved! I can say each BB battery for their 100ah is between $800-900 and weigh in at 31lbs each, so total weight 310lbs. Remember that is for 1000ah/12800kwh of power though. Also remember that in LA batteries that would be about 1200lbs of weight since you would need 20 batteries to equal the 10.

@MichaelO
That is an interesting idea, maybe a bit more protection would be needed, I do believe those are sealed and water proof. I am sure if you call BB they will let you know for sure. If you call please post what they say.

[RogerR]

I choose Renogy 100 amp bluetooth battery, just one for now.
I choose Renogy for the warranty from an American based company.
With the 7% discount on top of sale price it still wasn't terribly more than the no names.

PS If you are buying Renogy you can get a referral from a past customer to get a bigger discount off list price.

[bluztoo]

I bought four SOK 206a batteries. The new ones have heaters. I've had great experience. My brother is using two of the Chins 200a batteries and I'm watching that as they were very cheap but they are missing key features. The SOK has a good balance of price and warranty. I would have spent 7 to 8 k with other brands recommended here and spent half that with the SOK brand.