WDH influence on tongue weight

[homer1959]

Ok tongue weight is let say 1000 pounds

Once coupled to a truck with a wdh, how much will be the weight on the tongue, the same or less ?

[craigav]

Interesting question very few ask. The answer is that you will still have 1000 lbs. However, that 1000 lbs is no longer all at the rear of the vehicle and instead it is distributed more forward than it would be without a WDH. ~CA

[homer1959]

I am asking because that's what is written on the sticker applied to my hitch receiver by Ford

weight carrying limit 500 tongue 5000 trailer

but with WDH

weight carrying limit 1050 tongue and 10500 trailer ...

so why a smaller capacity without WDH ?

especially if the push on the ball remain the same in all the cases ?


hence my question :-) sorry I can be slow ...

[craigav]

Originally Posted by homer1959

I am asking because that's what is written on the sticker applied to my hitch receiver by Ford

weight carrying limit 500 tongue 5000 trailer

but with WDH

weight carrying limit 1050 tongue and 10500 trailer ...

so why a smaller capacity without WDH ?

especially if the push on the ball remain the same in all the cases ?


hence my question :-) sorry I can be slow ...

I had started to mention why this is, but I often go too long on my responses so I try to be more succinct when I can.

The reason is because Ford (along with other manufactures) is not concerned only with the hitch strength but with the vehicle itself. With that in mind, 1000 lbs without a WDH has all of the weight placed directly downward on the hitch which means that there is more weight on the rear axle and less weight on the front axle of the tow vehicle. Stress and drivability concerns can happen as the rear axle becomes more loaded and the front axle becomes more unloaded (less weight).

With a WDH, there is (for lack of better words) a leverage on the hitch (twisting action towards the front of the truck) that reduces the weight on the rear axle (compared to w/o a WDH) and increases the weight on the front axle and this "distribution" provides for a more balanced load on the tow vehicle overall, therefore the entire vehicle can support more of the load compared to just the rear of the vehicle.

In concept, this would be similar to placing a 1000 lbs of bricks on or close to the tailgate vs placing them right behind the cab. If placed on the tailgate the rear axle would drop a lot and the front axle would rise some because the load is behind the rear axle, but if the load is better balanced (load placed forward of the rear axle) then the entire truck would remain somewhat level (depending on the exact location of the load).

You will notice in many threads where it is common to discuss the measured fender distance to the ground when adjusting a WDH, the goal is to make sure the front and rear fenders both are reduced somewhat equally in regards to how close they are to the ground, which when they are, that indicates that both axles are sharing the load. ~CA

[homer1959]

Originally Posted by craigav

I had started to mention why this is, but I often go too long on my responses so I try to be more succinct when I can.

The reason is because Ford (along with other manufactures) are not concerned only with the hitch strength but with the vehicle itself. With that in mind, 1000 lbs without a WDH has all of the weight placed directly downward on the hitch which means that there is more weight on the rear axle and less weight on the front axle of the tow vehicle. Stress and drivability concerns can happen as the rear axle becomes more loaded and the front axle becomes more unloaded (less weight).

With a WDH, there is (for lack of better words) a leverage on the hitch (twisting action towards the front of the truck) that reduces the weight on the rear axle (compared to w/o a WDH) and increases the weight on the front axle and this "distribution" provides for a more balanced load on the tow vehicle overall, therefore the entire vehicle can support more of the load compared to just the rear of the vehicle.

In concept, this would be similar to placing a 1000 lbs of bricks on or close to the tailgate vs placing them right behind the cab. If placed on the tailgate the rear axle would drop a lot and the front axle would rise some because the load is behind the rear axle, but if the load is better balanced (load placed forward of the rear axle) then the entire truck would remain somewhat level (depending on the exact location of the load).

You will notice in many threads where it is common to discuss the fender clearance to the ground when adjusting a WDH, the goal is to make sure the front and rear fenders both are reduced somewhat equally in regards to how close they are to the ground, which when they are, that indicates that both axles are sharing the load. ~CA

ok got it I was only looking at the trees and not at the forest

i understand now that the weight limit stated on the hitch is not only for the hitch itself its construction and capacity but it is also and mainly for the whole truck

thanks Craigav :-)

[craigav]

Just a thought to share, mainly for others in the future perhaps.

The sticker provided by Ford does look at the forest as you mentioned but the tow and load ratings of the truck itself still should be verified as often the Ford sticker will state that the ratings vary based on each vehicle and equipment installed (or something similar). The hitch itself, especially a third party hitch that is not factory installed, for example a CURT hitch often has stamped limits embossed into the hitch, which simply means the hitch should not exceed those limits and does not take into account the truck's ratings which could be more or less than what the hitch supports. ~CA

Just another thought to add, most all receivers support a WDH but not all hitches do, so the hitch ratings do not only account for the downward load (non-wdh) but also the torsional (twisting) load that occurs with a WDH.

[Peach&Batman]

Thanks Craig, I was not the original asker of the question but the answers you gave are clear and concise, and unlike a lot of forum answers, do not belittle the people that don't know a lot about this (like me) but are planning to get into a towable RV in the near future. Tow ability of a vehicle is the question i see most often and normally it's answered with "buy this truck or upgrade to this truck" without helping the person out. I searched for 3 months online to find someone that was in the RV business that was willing to answer answer my questions via email without hesitations, to bad more on here cannot do the same as you and just answer with knowledge that you havd aquired over time and point the person in the right direction, again thanks.

[craigav]

You are very welcome.

I had thought to put a bit more emphasis on the tow rating of the truck vs the rating of the hitch after my last reply, as the label on the hitch could mislead someone into thinking the weights listed on the label are also the tow ratings of the truck. So I want to add caution again to check both the hitch and truck's tow ratings and consider the hitch rating itself is generally always higher than the truck's tow rating.

For example with a 2023 Ford F150, on page 9 in the towing guide you will read that a trailer towing package is required for trailers over 5000lbs and lower on that same page is a reference to the "Factory-Installed Trailer Hitch" which is included in the towing packages that shows a max 5000# trailer with a max 500# tongue weight (w/o a WDH) or with a wdh 14,000# max trailer along with 1400# max tongue weight. However, each truck configuration they have listed in the guide has a specific max trailer weight unique to each configuration and only one configuration is actually rated for a 14000# trailer.

The overall takeaway of my point here is that for every F150 they list in the 2023 F150 guide and regardless of any particular truck's maximum trailer weight rating, Ford doesn't want you to go over 5000#\500# without a weight distributing hitch (in particular for conventional trailers that are attached via the receiver). There are similar towing guides for other series trucks as well (F250, F350, etc) and for different year models, and they all have the similar information, but different ratings to be aware of. Each truck manufacture has a similar towing guide (at least every mfg I have ever looked for).

https://www.vdm.ford.com/content/dam...o_r2_Jun23.pdf

One last thought, I mentioned earlier that a WDH distributes the load forward on the truck which is correct but not 100% of that load is distributed forward as some of that load distribution is also rearward onto the trailer's axles. This is another reason to properly load the trailer with 10~15% of the trailers total weight being on the tongue, and if it is not too heavy (exceeds any ratings) for the truck, trailer, or the hitch, the higher side of that (15%) tongue loading will provide more stability than 10% will. ~CA

[Route 66 Traveler]

This past week we were in Tucson, AZ for the FMCA's rally...over 1000 RV's in attendance! They had a seminar on vehicle weights, plus offered RV weighing. They weighed each tire at the same time, something that isn't possible at a CAT scale. I was happy to see my WDH was set up correctly and all of my weights were under maximum limits.

My tongue weight fully loaded was 875 pounds, with the WDH connected the tongue weight was 775 pounds. The weight on the front truck tires measured a 50 pound difference between no trailer and trailer with the WDH connected. My tongue weight measured at 12% of trailer gross weight. Well worth the 70 bucks they charged for the service.

[TommyD]

Thanks for all that but I’ve another question
I’m towing a 25’ 2018 White Hawk with a 2019 F150. Young wt about 500. Been doing it for 6 years W/O a WDH but wit rear airbags. They allow me to level the truck/trailer. The Ford antisway keeps us going straight even in Windy Wyoming. Would appreciate any thoughts

[bjferg]

Our grand Cherokee also has air suspension with a self leveling system. We still use a wd system with anti sway incorporated. Had a bad sway experience once and decided to be safer than sorry.

[Russc25]

When you put weight on the hitch behind the axle, it acts like a lever and not only adds the tongue weight to the rear axle, it subtracts some weight from the front axle (that you steer with) and adds it to the rear axle. Adding a WDH torques the hitch to put some weight back on the front tires.

Also look at the way the axle's bolted to the frame, with a standard hitch, the rear bolts are in tension while the nose of the hitch is pushing up. With a WDH, it's almost trying to do the opposite, putting all the bolts in tension distributing the load not only across the axles better but across the bolts.

Originally Posted by TommyD

Thanks for all that but I’ve another question
I’m towing a 25’ 2018 White Hawk with a 2019 F150. Young wt about 500. Been doing it for 6 years W/O a WDH but wit rear airbags. They allow me to level the truck/trailer. The Ford antisway keeps us going straight even in Windy Wyoming. Would appreciate any thoughts

airbag leveling is just that: leveling. It does nothing to return weight to the steer axles.
truck built-in anti-sway doesn't FIX anything, it just hides the symptoms. It actuates the truck and/or trailer brakes to drag the trailer in line behind you but it doesn't get rid of the physics causing the sway to begin.