All about "hydraulic surge brakes" please.

bmadams · 09-28-2018, 09:25 AM

My 'new to me' 2001 Jayco Heritage PUP appears to have a "Hydraulic Brake System". I am new to pulling anything with its own brake system. So I have some questions please.

- From the manual, I do understand mostly how this system works.
But I do not understand how the safety "breakaway cable" activates this hydraulic system? it seems it would need some kind of electric system to activate when the cables pulls/breaks? because it is obviously going to be separated from the tow vehicle tongue/ball hitch..

and

- How can I best determine if everything is up to snuff with the system?

I am very familiar with drum brakes on cars and bleeding them. I am assuming this is similar to what is on my camper. But uses the tongue weight to pump the brakes vs a human foot on a pedal, so how would one bleed/flush this system?

I realize also I should check the Master cylinder fluid level (which I will do today). And I assume it has auto DOT3 brake fluid in it?
As for testing the braking function, the best I can find on the forum is that "you should not feel the camper "push" the tow vehicle". This seems a bit to subjective to me.

Is there a better way to be sure I am getting all I should out of this brake system?

thank you thank you thank you

Sundancer330 · 09-28-2018, 12:13 PM

Maybe this article will help.

https://www.centrevilletrailer.com/h...shooting-tips/

DocBrown · 09-28-2018, 12:25 PM

Good link Sundancer!

I had two Jayco pop-up campers that had surge brakes. I really hated them, the surge brakes that is. Most come with a plastic cap on the master cylinder. Replace it with a metal cap. The reason is that the plastic cap threads are easily stripped and WILL allow rain water to get into the system because you won't be able to get a tight seal. If that happens the master cylinder will rust and have to be replaced. Unless your manual says otherwise, yes they take DOT3 brake fluid.

To me surge brakes are sort of like your health insurance being major medical only. There when you have to endure a hospital stay not much help for minor medical things. Surge brakes work best in hard braking situations. They provide very little benefit in most "light duty" braking situations. If yours has the 12 ft box (like both mine did) the heavier trailer is a benefit to making the brakes work a little better.

To bleed the brakes you need someone to push the tongue manually. I used to take my ball mount and lock into the tongue and have someone push down on it.

bmadams · 09-28-2018, 12:41 PM

Thanks for those replies, they pretty much answered all my questions. I am going to reach out to the person who sold me the camper and see if they did, or if the person they bought it from, had any brake work done. If not for sure..it looks like I will be doing a total check and rebuild of the system, and wheel bearings, before I take a long trip..or one with hills. We are going on our first camping trip this weekend, but it is only a few miles away and all flat. This is a very interesting brake system..I have done sooo many car brakes over the years I am not concerned with the difficulty and kinda looking forward to having a top notch brake system...

Sundancer330 · 09-28-2018, 01:09 PM

Just for peace of mind if it was mine I would pull the brakes apart clean everything real good, insp the shoes and repack the bearings

bigdav160 · 09-30-2018, 05:57 AM

Surge brakes work great if properly bled and adjusted. The biggest problem is water saturation of the DOT brake fluid. It really needs to be changed frequently if you use your camper regularly or it's stored outside. At a minimum you should remove the fluid from the master cylinder with a turkey baster and replace it yearly.

bmadams · 09-30-2018, 06:35 AM

Well not good

. The Master Cylinder is full of crud. No fluid found. It has a much smaller access hole then a cars. Can't really see into it, stuck a thin stick and came up dry. I could feel a pretty thick layer of crunchy corrosion. A lesson learned about doing a better smarter inspection BEFORE purchaing. I did get it at a great price but after the hours cleaning the canvas walls and now this, I would have been better paying another grand and getting a newer one or one better maintained. It is what it is...going camping this weekend, 3 days on the lake

bmadams · 09-30-2018, 06:56 AM

Sooo I am probably looking replacing the entire Brake system: (Master Cylinder, x2 Brake Cylinder, 2x Brake Shoes, and maybe even brake lines).

I am thinking of staying with hydraulic vs electric because of cost. I just don't see putting much more $ in this 2001 camper. But I just looked and I can get the electric hubs, complete for $55 each (The DEX12RH (Dexter Axle part number 23-106))
sooo I will price each out and compare, and I will have to add the electric parts to my tow vehicle.

One thing, regardless if I stay hydraulic or go electric, I will have to be able to do it myself. I know I can replace the hydraulic system, I have done many many auto brake systems over the years, but never replaced an electric system.. we will see.

Words of advice and wisdom from others that have been in this place are always welcomed...

until this is resolved, I will not be towing up in N. Ga hills :-)

SloPoke · 10-01-2018, 11:10 AM

Etrailer.com is a good source of brake parts... I've rebuilt many over the years on various boat trailers that saw lots of ocean water launches. They have rebuild kits for the master cylinder since yours looks to have run dry and rusted.

bmadams · 10-01-2018, 01:37 PM

I have looked a bit at parts and prices. Going either way looks doable, as I learn more and more, going Electric may actually be easier. I would not have to deal with rebuilding the Master Cylinder, or bleeding them, or having to keeping the fluid dry.
With going Electric I will need to add the system to my tow vehicle but a friend did this to his truck and found it pretty easy and less then $150..

scweddnc · 03-14-2020, 09:07 AM

Hi, interested in hearing which way you went, stay with hydraulic or switch to electric? Also the cost of your choice. Thanks in advance!

SloPoke · 03-14-2020, 10:55 AM

We stayed with Hydraulic brakes...

We replaced everything except the steel lines

https://www.amazon.com/Southwest-Whe.../dp/B01E7GB9D4
Included all new drums, shoes, springs, bearings, races, seals - all assembled on the backing-plate. All new lug nuts, bolts, pins and such. Super easy to install.

https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Bra..._Actuator.aspx
The master Cylinder and entire hitch coupler was replaced too... For about $450 and a Saturday - we had an entirely new brake system that works extremely well.

scweddnc · 03-14-2020, 11:20 AM

Awesome response! That’s exactly the info I was looking for! Have you experienced any issues in backing up, since the actuator doesn’t have a lockout? Also, how were you able to determine if your steel brake lines were still good on the inside? Mine is a little rusty on the outside for the first couple feet and then looks fine, just not sure how to determine if the inside of the line has retained too much moisture.

Again, thank you for your comments/responses as they are very helpful!

SloPoke · 03-14-2020, 11:40 AM

You don't need the lockout! The brake assembly has it's own on each wheel.

Brake lines should be flushed every so many years. Also DOT3 will peel paint, so the outside may have had been exposed by previous maintenance. I used this to bleed the entire trailer system in about 30min as I replaced each of the brake assemblies while they were apart.
https://www.harborfreight.com/Brake-...Kit-63391.html

After all of the wheel assemblies were replaced, that same tool was used to bleed each wheel. Once the brake line is full of brake fluid, it won't continue to rust (requires Oxygen to rust).

scweddnc · 03-14-2020, 12:58 PM

Ahhh, got it! “Freebacking plates”. I’m learning as I go so I really do appreciate your input! A couple more questions (hopefully the last ones):
1) Did you do anything to the axle races and bearings, were those included in the kit?
2) Did the new actuator fit/slide right into the trailer tongue where the old one was? I am assuming you have the same trailer tongue setup as me. I have attached pics of mine.

Again, I appreciate your help!

scweddnc · 03-14-2020, 08:43 PM

Please ignore #1 above....you already answered it in your first reply. I just clicked on the links and didn’t fully read that part of the answer.

SloPoke · 03-14-2020, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scweddnc

Please ignore #1 above....you already answered it in your first reply. I just clicked on the links and didn’t fully read that part of the answer.

I just sent you a private message...

Steve

SloPoke · 03-15-2020, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scweddnc

2) Did the new actuator fit/slide right into the trailer tongue where the old one was? I am assuming you have the same trailer tongue setup as me. I have attached pics of mine.

Again, I appreciate your help!

We replaced our entire actuator / coupler as a unit. When I was doing this, I wanted to shorten the overall trailer length from 29' and cut almost three ft of the tongue off. This left me with the option to change out the coupler for another style and height of the ball to better match our hitch height.

Yours appears to be a fairly common unit, and you can look for a "rebuild kit" that includes essentially all the parts needed to rebuild the unit. Just get the Attwood model number and search (or call eTrailer)for the kit.

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