EMS - internal vs external pros and cons

[estesbubba]

This has probably been beaten to death but what are the pros and cons to internal vs external Progressive EMS's? Has anyone installed one way and ended up wishing they went another way? For those that installed an internal how long does it actually take? I'm probably leaning that way but also installing in the storage when it's in the 90's and humid does't sound like fun.

Also some of the campgrounds we stay in are 30 amps and I use 30amp cord when at them because they're easier to work with (and cheaper if someone steals). So in this case I would need 30->50 and pedestal and 50->30 at the portable EMS. Don't know if this a big deal or not.

[Marcm157]

I went the Internal route simply because its one less thing I have to remember to setup or take down. I have the remote display set up in a convenient location with my trailer and can view it easily. Additionally, I don't have to worry about theft or securing it with a cable and lock.

[Neil S.]

Originally Posted by Marcm157

I went the Internal route simply because its one less thing I have to remember to setup or take down. I have the remote display set up in a convenient location with my trailer and can view it easily. Additionally, I don't have to worry about theft or securing it with a cable and lock.

I installed one for the same reasons. Was pretty straight forward and didn't take long to put in.


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[sennister]

Using an adapter on a portable isn't a big deal.

Theft is something we read about a lot but not very common. I would see it as more of an issue if you were at a seasonal site that also had some non-seasonal sites around and if you left it plugged in all the time to keep the fridge going or something. If you were just there for the weekend you would likely be around so you would probably notice that it dissapeared pretty quick.

In the end it will really depend on personal preference as to which way you go. Some are going to say internal is better, I am on that side of the fence, others say portable is better.

Here are my thoughts. This is from the internal perspective. The Portable is just the opposite.

Internal
Pros

• Can't forget it
• Doesn't take up storage
• Can't be stolen
• Field Serviceable

Cons

• Need to bypass it if you use a generator with floating ground
• More work to install
• More work to move to new camper

Really it came down to field serviceability. If you take a hit, it is going to fry the internals of a surge protector. The idea is, like a fuse it takes the hit so your appliances don't. If it is a big enough of a hit, you will likely be replacing appliances anyhow. The portable ones need to be sealed for weather protection. The internal ones, I can open up with 6 screws. If it takes a hit there is a board in there that you can swap out. I am not sure if Progressive charges for the new surge board or not but either way, I have to call them and they ship it out. If it is a portable one, I have to mail it to them, then it goes into their maintenance queue, gets fixed and shipped out unless they have some form of refurb that they just ship out. Either way you are waiting on shipping both ways rather than one way. This was the big selling point for me. If you go internal and dry camp with a generator, get the one with the remote display or buy the optional bypass switch unless you plan on making the adapter to bond the neutral to ground. If you get the optional bypass switch, you probably would have been better off getting the one with the remote display because it is about the same price at that point anyhow.

As for install. Here is what I would recommend. My install took maybe 45 minutes and I did the internal install along with eliminated the mouse hole storage for the power cord by converting them to a twist lock on the side of the camper. You don't have to do that at the same time but if you are considering it do them together. Either way I would spend a bit more and get 2 sets of twist lock plugs and some 10 gauge romex wire from the hardware store. This way you can do 75% of the work from the comfort of your home then do that last 25% in the heat of the storage lot. You will need 2 sections of romex that are about 12" or so long. Doesn't matter that much. Follow the directions to wire it up to the EMS and install one of the male twist lock plugs on the input side of the EMS. Then install the other section of romex on the output side with the female twist lock plug. You have basically made a portable EMS out of an internal one. Now when it comes time to install it, locate your installation location, make sure the camper isn't plugged in and cut the romex wire inside the camper. Install a female twist lock plug on the wire coming in from outside after the steel electrical box. Install the remaining male twist lock plug on the wire that goes on to the converter. Mount the EMS to the floor, wall or something else solid and hook up the twist locks and you are done.

The benefit of installing it this way is if you have a problem or sell the camper, just go in, remove the EMS and hook the two remaining twist lock plugs together. Tell the new owner it is ready for an EMS install. If there is an issue, you can bypass the EMS in a matter of a minute. It will likely take longer to get to the EMS than to actually unhook it from the system. This pretty much eliminates the one downside of the moving the EMS from the camper or getting around it if you need to. In my case my EMS is mounted under the lower back bunk where my water heater access is. I just have to move the lower mattress and lift open the access panel which is where my water heater bypass valves are. That is on a 25BH though. I don't know where you power comes in on your unit.

The other thing you have to do during the install is find a place for the remote display or bypass if you go that route. I put mine in the outdoor kitchen. I mainly look at it while hooking up things so I just open the door and can verify the status.

[John1928]

I went internal with the remote display as well for essentially the same reasons. While wrestling with the heavy gauge wiring (50A) in a relatively tight corner took a little effort. However, that was a one-time exercise to avoid neededing to worry about forgetting/leaving behind/having stolen/family forgetting to use/etc. in the future.

It also makes it cleaner at home when I'm running off of 20A outlet that can be adapted but doesn't readily accommodate a hanging dogbone external unit.

[3'senough]

I went internal as I like to see what is happening inside vs going to the pedestal. Also a bypass is a simple flip of the switch.

This thing went nuts this past weekend and probably saved me a ton of repairs as the CG went to 97 volts for 1 hr at 5PM and again at 9AM with all the draw from Friday/Saturday arrivals and coffee pots. The Keurigs must have been a plenty...

My Bedroom AC wound up popping the CB inside the unit and this is with 50A and new electrical though out the sites we were in.

Either way you go, I would not be without it.

[Marcm157]

Originally Posted by 3'senough

I went internal as I like to see what is happening inside vs going to the pedestal. Also a bypass is a simple flip of the switch.

This thing went nuts this past weekend and probably saved me a ton of repairs as the CG went to 97 volts for 1 hr at 5PM and again at 9AM with all the draw from Friday/Saturday arrivals and coffee pots. The Keurigs must have been a plenty...

My Bedroom AC wound up popping the CB inside the unit and this is with 50A and new electrical though out the sites we were in.

Either way you go, I would not be without it.

This is the best answer yet^^^^^ It really comes down to personal preference but I will not plug may camper in without one...

[Sundancer330]

Simple enough, Internal.

[TWP723]

I opted for a portable..just because it was easier. And I'm lazy.

[JFlightRisk]

I too have a portable, 'cause it's going to go to the next TT......and I'm lazy also.

[rsday75]

Internal will alert if there is an issue with your cord. Pole mount will not.....

[sennister]

Originally Posted by rsday75

Internal will alert if there is an issue with your cord. Pole mount will not.....

Let me first say that I am a fan of the internal and that is the route I went.

One thing that I have read as a common reason to get the pole mounted one is that if there is a problem, it can be inside your camper.

Lets say there is a short in the cord. You are right that the EMS can detect that, trip and protect the appliances downstream from it. However lets say there is a short in the wires between the pedestal and where the EMS is located. This could potentially be inside the camper. Now the circuit breaker should in theory trip on the pedestal but lets say it was stuck. I know odds are slim. But it could cause a fire that started in the camper at any point before where the EMS is wired where if you had a properly functioning portable one it would have, in theory, have been stopped out at the pole. Keep in mind a fuse/breaker type system can only protect things down stream from it. Again low risk and one I am willing to take but one argument for the portable one that I have seen others use.

Actually that brings up another positive on the internal one and why I went that route. Look at Progressive Industries' website for what they don't cover under the lifetime warranty. Here is a link Click Me

This is a real problem at many campsites across the country. If you don't inspect those 30A outlets and they are a little melted, this is what it will do to your portable EMS. Sure with an internal unit you can have plug issues as well but I can hack off the end of my power cord and slap on a new end for $15-20. If you melt a portable EMS because of a bad outlet like this you may be buying a new one. You have little to no control over how well a campsite maintains the pedestal. Short of refusing to plug in, ask that they fix it which may not be possible on a weekend if they don't have parts or moving to a new site which may not be possible if they are booked. Either way this doesn't eliminate the need to inspect an outlet if you have an internal or external, just it is easier to fix if there is an issue.

[estesbubba]

Originally Posted by sennister

Using an adapter on a portable isn't a big deal.

...

As for install. Here is what I would recommend. My install took maybe 45 minutes and I did the internal install along with eliminated the mouse hole storage for the power cord by converting them to a twist lock on the side of the camper. You don't have to do that at the same time but if you are considering it do them together. Either way I would spend a bit more and get 2 sets of twist lock plugs and some 10 gauge romex wire from the hardware store. This way you can do 75% of the work from the comfort of your home then do that last 25% in the heat of the storage lot. You will need 2 sections of romex that are about 12" or so long. Doesn't matter that much. Follow the directions to wire it up to the EMS and install one of the male twist lock plugs on the input side of the EMS. Then install the other section of romex on the output side with the female twist lock plug. You have basically made a portable EMS out of an internal one. Now when it comes time to install it, locate your installation location, make sure the camper isn't plugged in and cut the romex wire inside the camper. Install a female twist lock plug on the wire coming in from outside after the steel electrical box. Install the remaining male twist lock plug on the wire that goes on to the converter. Mount the EMS to the floor, wall or something else solid and hook up the twist locks and you are done.


...

Got a link to the twist lock plugs you are talking about?

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by estesbubba

This has probably been beaten to death but what are the pros and cons to internal vs external Progressive EMS's?

The internal is more expensive and your power wire would be damaged before the problem hits the EMS system. It is also much more difficult to steal and provides you with an interior display (optional) so you can monitor your voltage and any error codes from inside.

The external is less expensive and would shut off power before damage is done to your extension cord. They are easier to steal and don't allow you to monitor power conditions from inside the camper.

It took me about 45 minutes to install mine. We did it in the summer too, it was pretty hot and humid... but as soon as I was done we were able to turn on the AC and cool down. I have no regrets about a hard wired. I've had parts stolen off my WDH before in a campground, so I am a little leery against theft. Either option will work for you though. You can easily use a 30 to 50 amp dogbone, then an external EMS, then your power cord. You can also do it the other way, in case I misunderstood your question.

[sennister]

Originally Posted by estesbubba

Got a link to the twist lock plugs you are talking about?

Assuming you are talking about a 30A install which is the install that I did. The same can be done with a 50A system but you will need different plugs and a beefier wire.

If you wanted to order everything off Amazon here are links to what you would need.

Female 125v 30A Twist Lock (need 2)
https://www.amazon.com/Superior-Elec.../dp/B00BSTXZ04

Male 125v 30A Twist Lock (need 2)
https://www.amazon.com/Superior-Elec...dp/B00BSTXYNC/

25' 10/2 (with ground) Romex (way more than you need)
https://www.amazon.com/Southwire-288...dp/B000BQO9X2/

The price on the twist lock plugs isn't bad. On the Romex, if the 50' option loads try and change the style to the 25' it is a bit cheaper ($25 vs $37). All you will need is 2-3' of it. You might be able to get a shorter 10' section at the local hardware store or even 6' if they have the cut to length option. I know my Lowes does that. I bought the 25' roll from my hardware store because I needed a bit more when I ran the wire from the input side on the EMS to the mouse hole elimination kit that converts the power cord to a twist lock.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NUYZQC/

That install is optional but it is nice because it eliminates stuffing the power cord in the hole and it getting tangled. It also seals up the hole to control moisture and eliminates an entry point for critters. It makes sense to do both at the same time because you are only messing with the power stuff once. I think I did both in 45 min or so.

When you hook those twist lock plugs together, I connected them, locked them together then ran some black electrical tape around where they join just so they don't wiggle loose going down the road. The tape will come right off if I ever need to remove it.

[sennister]

Originally Posted by spoon059

The internal is more expensive and your power wire would be damaged before the problem hits the EMS system. ~snip

Odds are it won't damage your power wire. It depends on the failure. Low voltage and even many spikes it would be perfectly fine. I would have to look at the power wire but normally they are rated for 600V. A close lightning strike could be more than that but odds are a surge protector won't help anyhow. The biggest thing I read about in campgrounds though are low and high voltage issues which would have no impact on the power cord.

Also as I mentioned internal eliminates the risk of poor fitting sockets from damaging an expensive EMS. I would rather put a new end on my cord than a new end on an EMS. That is one thing Progressive clearly states isn't covered by the lifetime warranty.

[edatlanta]

I have a pole mount and won't hook up anywhere without it. I actually have two of them. One is for use when (note I didn't say if) the primary one is damaged due to line issues. This has happened to me twice. Both times I removed the dead unit, plugged in the backup and I was back in business while the dead one went back to PI for service. I have read others say they don't have a problem with a dead internal unit since they can just bypass it while repair or parts are on order. I can't handle not having my unit inline 100% of the time.

One thing I do while hooking up after inspecting the socket I will be plugging into is to squirt a little dielectric grease into each of openings. This lubricates the contacts making insertion and removal easier, but also keeps moisture away from the connection. I also NEVER plug in or unplug without the breaker on the pedestal being OFF.

Works for me after 7 years full time and the contacts on my power cord look brand new.

[RedHorse1]

I've had both, my 30A pole mount was first and it's easy to install (plug and play). When we bought the 5th I knew I'd get one for it (50A). I went with the installed version. It's a pretty simple DIY project if you can access a good installation place. Remote display brings me peace of mind and I can't forget it when setting up or more importantly when packing up.
Left my adjustable pressure regulator at a CG on the last trip.

[DNelson]

I have a portable 30 Amp now and it has saved our electrical system a few times. We are going to add a 2nd air conditioner and will then install a 50 Amp with remote readout inside. Does anyone know a good place to locate it inside a 2018 28.5RSTS?

[KillerIsMe]

Originally Posted by sennister

Also as I mentioned internal eliminates the risk of poor fitting sockets from damaging an expensive EMS. I would rather put a new end on my cord than a new end on an EMS. That is one thing Progressive clearly states isn't covered by the lifetime warranty.

I bought the portable simply because I'm a new guy and there is much to learn, so the portable being simpler I have one less thing to think about.

That being said I've seen the Youtube videos for the permanent install and it doesn't look too difficult so I'll be going down that road either in the fall or next spring (your install method is genius by the way and that's how I'll go). I'll either sell the portable or, more likely, keep it as a backup.

Anyways my question for you is, would it make any sense to buy a dog bone or an adapter to plug into the pole and then plug the PI into the bone? I'm thinking if the box fries something it would be the bone.