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07-24-2014, 04:16 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5
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Cracks In Norco/BAL "A" Frame - 2013
Hi There!
Just got back from a 2800km trip from Edmonton, through Whistler BC, Okanogan, Sushwaps and home.
When I parked my trailer back at my shop I noticed the checker plate protection on the front was kinda bent or twisted, I didn't think much of it maybe a broken screw or released seal, no big deal rite?
Upon further inspection I found that it was twisting and was actually had broken metal on the A Frame I think is what it is. It appears now that the front wall has started to come delaminated and the floor has separated.
When I put the trailer on the truck, if I bounce on the hitch you can see the trailer actually roll towards the spare tire in the centre, you can see the inside storage compartment actually flex when looking inside!
Has anyone else experienced anything like this on a Norco/BAL frame?
I contacting BAL to see if they've heard of this before, they mentioned it tends to happen in Canada because of our bumpy roads. Why would they sell these frames in Canada then?
It's still under warranty thankfully, just makes me nervous.
-Rob
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07-24-2014, 07:17 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kalamazoo, West Michigan
Posts: 1,817
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Probably doesn't help that some moron at the factory put a zip screw through the thin section on the bottom of the frame rail in picture 2 & 4
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2006 23B Hybrid with 10k round bar WDH
2011 F150 4x4 SCREW Ecoboost, Max Tow, Integrated TBC, 3.73 LS axle, Firestone Ride Rite airbags.
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07-24-2014, 08:45 PM
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#3
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
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RobAllen,
Welcome to JOF
I haven't heard of any frame issues recently, but I would get it to your dealer ASAP. On the way to the dealer it may be of interest to weigh the TT at a CAT scale.
Bob
__________________
2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
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07-24-2014, 09:23 PM
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#4
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle
RobAllen,
Welcome to JOF
I haven't heard of any frame issues recently, but I would get it to your dealer ASAP. On the way to the dealer it may be of interest to weigh the TT at a CAT scale.
Bob
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Thanks Bob!
I had it at the dealer today, they said they've seen it before and I should be good to continue to use it until the end of the season. I had a friend drive beside me and take some video down the highway. When it bounces you can see the propane tank cover touches the front of the cabin of the trailer. The cover always sits pretty close but you can see it move here.
Being an aluminum framed cabin you wouldn't think it would flex like that? Maybe it's just an illusion in the video? Or is it designed to do that to act as a cushion somehow?
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07-24-2014, 11:31 PM
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#5
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,424
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There shouldn't be any movement between the A-frame and the main frame, and there appears to be some "flexing" in the videos......, which is confirmed by your prior pics.
Not right, not safe.
Bob
__________________
2016 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4.10
2018 Jay Flight 24RBS
2002 GM 2500HD 6.0L/4:10 (retired)
2005 Jayco Eagle 278FBS (retired)
1999 Jayco Eagle 246FB (retired)
Reese HP Dual Cam (Strait-Line)
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07-25-2014, 05:09 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 1,808
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I don't care what the dealer says, I would be leaving that at the dealership and having it replaced ASAP. That looks horribly dangerous. The constant flexing is just going to weaken the rest of the connection. I'm a little surprised that it isn't welded, just bolted...
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07-25-2014, 06:16 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Missoula, Montana
Posts: 704
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I used to have a Lance trailer with a Bal Norco frame. I only had one problem with it where a rivot came out allowing a corner to sag. This was at a rear stabilizer. It was remedied by dealer by putting a bolt through the hole left by the missing rivot, but solved the mystery of how I managed to get a crack in the ceiling. The whole "box" flexed, sort of a unibody concept. If you google bal norco frame problems there used to be many, Jayco, Kodiak and others as I remember it. You never say which trailer you have.
One thing that I worried about with this frame was not being able to jack it up at the frame. I had to have all of the tires replaced under warranty on the Lance and took it to Costco who carried the Green Ball brand and I'm about 99% certain they did just that. I say this because the next time I was in for a single tire replacement I had to stop the guy from doing that, suggested he just run the trailer up on a block and he said he wasn't allowed to do it that way. So then I wondered if that shop jacking up the trailer caused the rivet to fail, which then caused the box to flex (even more so when I'd run the stabilizers down) which manifested itself in the crack in the ceiling.
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07-25-2014, 08:27 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Missouri City, The Republic of Texas
Posts: 5,063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoon059
I don't care what the dealer says, I would be leaving that at the dealership and having it replaced ASAP. That looks horribly dangerous. The constant flexing is just going to weaken the rest of the connection. I'm a little surprised that it isn't welded, just bolted...
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I agree, that looks dangerous. Ford's model A frames (1928-1931) were riveted and not welded to allow the frame to flex. A welded frame would have cracked and fallen apart.
That may be the thought behind your frame (or it could just be cheaper to bolt it together).
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Cheers,
T_
2013 F-350 CC SB 2WD 6.7PS
2013 Eagle Premier 351 RLTS
-SOLD- 2012 X23B
-SOLD- 2003 Ford Expedition 5.4, Bilstein shocks
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07-25-2014, 07:29 PM
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#9
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5
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It's difficult to see in the video but the actual frame is not flexing and there are no signs of anything moving on the actual frame of the trailer. It's just the front stabilizer that flexes right in the middle near the propane tanks. The issue sounds similar to Cosmik Debris rear stabilizer however it wasn't the Huck-Bolt that gave way it was actual metal fatigue.
Either way I called the dealership again today and canceled my weekend plans. They said to bring it back Monday and they will give it a thorough once over and get the process rolling with Jayco for a repair.
Re assuring that Bal/Norco said Jayco has experience with this type of failure so they hopefully know what to do to properly repair it.
My next concern would be if the front has come delaminated. Should the complete wall including the bend near the propane tanks be 100% solid or is there some softness near the round?
Of course now that I push on it, it does flex and I don't remember if it did that before or not.
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08-12-2014, 04:42 AM
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#10
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1
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I have 2006, 24 octane, and I have had problems in the same area you are. have no idea who made the frame but the sheet metal front structure has cracked in every place that they put a weld exctpt for where it met the I beams. We found the issue when in whitehorse YK on holidays. I put a temp patch on the main A frame where it cracked but the damage was done. the front structure is finished as is the the 2x6 .125 HSS tube.
it has also done in the shover inside and because of the bouncing from the cracked HSS it has scrubbed off the 2 tires on the oppisite side of the cracked A frame.
I have finished removing the A frame and the front structure and have built a new A frame and front structure from stronger HSS (3x5x.250 wall) as well as used a piece of 9" channel as the replacement for the front structure.
I know we are a first world country, but many cities, (like EDMONTON) have third world roads.
As a steel fabricator I looked at it this way. This was this trailers last chance, and If these fixes dont work, find a lake lot to put it on.. i feel any other way it would be a write off. I do belive that the frames are made too small, but it is what it is, and I cant change that now.
I hope all of this work pays off. I have lost half of my summer fixing this issue all ready.
Rifleman
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08-12-2014, 07:32 PM
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#11
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifleman1911
I have 2006, 24 octane, and I have had problems in the same area you are. have no idea who made the frame but the sheet metal front structure has cracked in every place that they put a weld exctpt for where it met the I beams. We found the issue when in whitehorse YK on holidays. I put a temp patch on the main A frame where it cracked but the damage was done. the front structure is finished as is the the 2x6 .125 HSS tube.
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Agree totally with our crappy roads! With all the freezing & thawing we experience it destroys them! We have 2 seasons... 1) Winter 2) Road Construction.
I solved my problem... Took it in for warranty and left it there, traded it in and left with a new unit for a different manufacturer. With the money I lost I consider it again since I'm sure I'd be dumping it back into the trailer within a few years anyways.
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08-12-2014, 09:15 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,783
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That 1st video makes me nervous. I think cancelling your trip was the right move. Please let us know what they did to fix the issue.
Added note,
I just went out and looked at my frame. Yours looks similar to mine. It is riveted further back with 8 rivets per side. Check those riveted connections. If they look good you should be fine. The A frame is acting as a long moment arm as it is not fully supported with the bad brace and is flexing. What appears to be happening is the front wall is bouncing on the broken brace. If this is the case you should be fine, but the bouncing on the front wall would bother me as it could cause additional internal damage
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08-12-2014, 11:08 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Southern Ohio
Posts: 463
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There is no way that I would tow that anywhere. That's an accident just looking for a place to happen.
__________________
2015 Jay Flight 23 RB
2014 Silverado LT 1500 with a 5.3 V8 Ecotec3
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08-13-2014, 07:34 AM
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#14
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagiven
That 1st video makes me nervous. I think cancelling your trip was the right move. Please let us know what they did to fix the issue.
Added note,
I just went out and looked at my frame. Yours looks similar to mine. It is riveted further back with 8 rivets per side. Check those riveted connections. If they look good you should be fine. The A frame is acting as a long moment arm as it is not fully supported with the bad brace and is flexing. What appears to be happening is the front wall is bouncing on the broken brace. If this is the case you should be fine, but the bouncing on the front wall would bother me as it could cause additional internal damage
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Hi Jagiven,
You're exactly correct with the A-Frame and the front wall bouncing. My fear was that the wood in the curve is broken and may have set the stage for further delimitation up higher if I interpreted the construction properly from the shop foreman.
I actually traded the trailer in last week for a new unit so unfortunately I won't know what the do to fix it, I'll try to inquire down the road to keep you posted.
I think the video made the problem look a lot worse than it is. Upon further inspection the frame is not actually flexing, it is just that broken brace on the front wall between the A-Frame.
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08-13-2014, 11:31 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Southern Ohio
Posts: 463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobAllen
Hi Jagiven,
I actually traded the trailer in last week for a new unit so unfortunately I won't know what the do to fix it, I'll try to inquire down the road to keep you posted.
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Way to go! I think that was the smart thing to do.
__________________
2015 Jay Flight 23 RB
2014 Silverado LT 1500 with a 5.3 V8 Ecotec3
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08-14-2014, 06:10 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Missoula, Montana
Posts: 704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobAllen
Hi Jagiven,
I actually traded the trailer in last week for a new unit so unfortunately I won't know what the do to fix it, I'll try to inquire down the road to keep you posted.
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You may not have to inquire if you watch the news and the dealer resells it. I hope any potential new owners look it over very well.
Or maybe the dealer will repair it before putting it on the lot.
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03-08-2016, 01:41 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Sparwood, BC
Posts: 2,800
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I found this old tread and wonder if this was the first generation Norco BAL frame or the Next generation? There where only a few readings in other forums. It must have been a few isolated incidents otherwise there would have been a lot more stories. And seems there are no recalls on this Frame.
The first generation has a weak front cross member as the have to many holes in them where the A-Frame sticks through. The easy fix was installing 2" square steal tubing under them.
Many RV manufactures used the Torflex axles on them so they where having a very low profile. Special the backend was easy to damage with short inclines. I installed heavy duty swing casters in place of the factory skids to lessen the force on the frame.
Jayco had a recall in 2007/2008 Jay Feathers on the Torflex axles because of low clearance between tire and fender. Torflex axles that's all they use in Europe on RV and Utility trailers.
So has any one had any problems with their Norco BAL Frames (First or Next generation)?
__________________
2014 Ram 1500 CrewCab 4x4 5.7 Hemi 3.92 Rear and Air Lift 1000
2005 Jayco Jay Feather LGT - 29Y GVWR-7000 lbs.
Dexter Axle Lift 4-9/16" - installed with sub-frame.
Pro Series 1200 lbs. WDH with Double Sway Bar.
Champion 3100/2800 watt Inverter/Generator-Onboard Solar Power
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08-18-2018, 06:23 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Sparwood, BC
Posts: 2,800
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For anyone to avoid the above problem is to install a piece of angle iron 2 x 2 x 1/8 - 94" long in front of the storage compartment where the carriage bolts come through. Drill as close you can to the 90 degrees. Replace all carriage bolts 2 - 3/8 x 3.5" and 5 - 3/8 x 3". You might have to drill under a slight angle to make it fit.
For extra support under the cross member use angle iron 2 x 2 x 1/8 - 66" long.
You always can PM me.
__________________
2014 Ram 1500 CrewCab 4x4 5.7 Hemi 3.92 Rear and Air Lift 1000
2005 Jayco Jay Feather LGT - 29Y GVWR-7000 lbs.
Dexter Axle Lift 4-9/16" - installed with sub-frame.
Pro Series 1200 lbs. WDH with Double Sway Bar.
Champion 3100/2800 watt Inverter/Generator-Onboard Solar Power
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09-14-2018, 07:31 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 857
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Our Feather has a NexGen frame. When it come to RVs, I will not buy another "ultra-light" anything. With this in mind, we are saving for a 3500 diesel. I really do not like the tedious jacking requirements of these frames (if you do it right/according to BAL's instructions).
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