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Old 02-28-2011, 11:57 AM   #11
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Sure. I can send "books and books" of info and supporting pictures on how to make their trailers much better. Based on my experience, it falls on deaf ears. A business (whether its house building, auto building or trailer building), the upper management only wants to hear about "productivity / profit gain" ideas. Many quality items cost more. If something isn't a legal or safety issue (that creates law suites or bad press) or a "concern" within the trailer's warranty time period, they do NOT want to hear about it. Its like that within any business. Thus, I don't waste my time on upwards communications. I'd rather spend time doing peer communications - to folks who use "the product". Thus, one can decide how to apply their own quality upgrades themselves. Or, decide to 100% avoid their product - if they aren't a DIY person (like me).

Regarding the TT's floor.... Did you know that 2x2 floor wood supports have a 2 x 1" pipes drilled directly through them as well? Thus, they really only have 1"x1" support beams (since all items are rated by their weakest points - especially structure points). And, their tub's goose neck area has a huge hole (with no physical access door) on it either. Talk about an easy access hole for critters (and heat / cooling loss). Many people don't know these lower floor quality items because many TT/5er owners don't even do visual checks under their Trailer. Or, don't remove the factory "fluff" fibreglass insulation - for a detailed look themselves either.

For supporting pictures, surf:
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2054.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2048.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2056.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2055.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_2046.jpg -> which shows brake wire pulled "too tight" (which makes it rub on steel support rails). Brake wiring + rubbing steel = NO brakes in the long run. Remember the guy in the video doing a "back pull" on the trailer's tongue wiring?? That over tight red wire is the results in the video. Yet. The video makes it sound he's doing a great job.

Lesson learned... Just because a video shows a trailer being built and many "quality words" are used as well, look beyond their words. Look at what they aren't showing you. Or, look at what they are skimming over really bad quickly....

.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:04 PM   #12
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Lesson learned... Just because a video shows a trailer being built and many "quality words" are used as well, look beyond their words. Look at what they aren't showing you. Or, look at what they are skimming over really quickly....

.
Don't worry Spike, we didn't take the tour seriously, but we were both still impressed to see the work put into making an/any rv. We are the kind of folks that like watch those "How'd They Do It?" programs on tv
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:27 PM   #13
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From the folks that have actually seen the factory -- is that video reality? I dont see that folks are running like that and working that quick every day all day. Looked a little more like a choreographed show going on the background for the camera.
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Old 02-28-2011, 02:15 PM   #14
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The trailer build shown within http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...68163#32468163 does looks impressive... However.... Do watch the video again and focus on the below items:

- 3/8" plywood sheeting on their floor is sanded down in some spots. Thus, its now down to 1/4" thick. Way "too thin" for a floor. IMO, 3/4" plywood must be used on the floor. Thus, eliminating squeek - squeek when walking across its floor.
- Their floor wood supports (which are 2x2s) are 24" apart. Stick house minimum code is 16" centers. Being a TT, I would make 12" apart.
- Windows are "dry fit". After 2-3 years (when factory warranty is over), they start to leak. IMO, the windows need to be fit with putty - the old method of installing windows.
- They use traditional fibre glass batts. This stuff has very low insulation value. And, that stuff loves to hold (and wick) water. And, they don't even use vapour barrier on their insulation either. Their factory insulation is very bad construction method as well.
- Within the video, one can see many different areas where "much better" spray foam can be used. Used within the walls, ceiling and under belly areas. IMO, Closed Cell - 2 lbs should be used instead of "water sucking" batts.
- Their roof lacks dicor caulking on this roof edge. Thus, after 2-3 years (when warranty is done), water starts to wick under the outer edge of the roof.
- Their front upper lights are dry installed as well. For much better seal, they need putty (silicone) behind them. Then, screwed down - sucked into the soft putty (for much better seal).
- They guy at the trailer's tonque is "back pulling" in the underbelly wires. Watch the installer's body posture. He's pulling way "too much" on its under belly wiring.

These are the few items I noticed within the video. If Jayco wants to have higher quality than its competitors, they need to apply more quality in many different areas. And, they need to stop thinking about time. re: Pump out 1 x TT every 6 hours. I'd rather have a TT built in 7 hours with thicker floor, more floor supports, better insulation, putty fit windows and wiring that isn't too tight. To me (the buyer), I want quality. And, knowing their pump out a TT every 6 hours doesn't impress me. More quality would impress me much more...

.

A few corrections, Spike!

As per Jayco Jayflight`s Standard construction Features list, 2010 of which I keep a copy.
"5/8 inch tongue and groove plywood main floor decking" Not 3/8", which would be very weak.
"2x3 longitudinal floor joists on 16" to 18" centers" Not 2x2`s on 24" centers which would also be very unsubstantial.

-Lee
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:25 PM   #15
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Watch the video again and focus on its floor. The guy has a "power sander" and its hitting the rear floor. If you call it 5/8" thick (on the newer models) but when one hits the floor with a power sander (as seen in the background), that floor area instantly becomes 1/2" thick. Even at 1/2" thick is "too thin" for a floor. IMO, a floor needs to be minimum 3/4" plywood. Real plywood - with Steel supports 12" apart. BTW: See the supporting steel rail distances within: http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/100_0664.jpg How far apart are those steel rails??? Like I said, 24" apart. And, notice the 2 x 1" holes from those water pipes as well.

Ya. Glossy brochures that states this and that - which was written by a marketing specialist - who's never crawled under a TT themselves.... I see it all the time as well. Do yourself a favor... Crawl under your TT (any brand), rip that usless "fluff" / water sucking fibreglass batt insulation away from its underbelly and have a serious look at its under floor construction. Bet you'll be shocked on the under built sloppiness of their materials and how they slapped the parts togther... My biggest beef is "lack of Spray Foam". If you compare spray foam to fiberglass, you'll realize that fibreglass insution with TTs should be illegal. re:

Do you agree that 2x3 (which are 2x2 on my jayco) should have 2x1" holes drilled across them for water lines? Remember the strength law of all materials. A board (or chain) is only as strong as its weakest point. With holes for piping across its floor boards, that board's strength is now reduced to equivelant of 1"x2" boards. Why not simply have the water piping on the "inside" of the TT? And, up the sides - in a well protected and properly insulated channel? Thus, keeping max strength within its floor as well. Talk about drilling holes in areas that should NEVER have holes, watch the video again and focus on the electrical wiring within the outer walls. There's holes and wires drilled across the vertical studs. Thus, weakening those wall studs (structure) as well. If wiring or needs to be within walls, simply bring their wires downward. And, connect on main run under the TT's Thus, keeping the walls at their maximum strenth as well. Talk about insulation, do you see any plastic vapour barrier with their fibreglass batt insulation as well? Hot/cold climate changes with NO vapour barrier inside their walls that have wood on the inside and steel on the outside? Man, talk about natural moisture / condensation inside the TT's walls. Natrural condensation that can easify be eliminated.

IMO, the video is showing certified Engineers (like myself) on how to cut corners in common sense areas - in order to "pump out" a TT as fast as they can. How to make a TT last up to 2 years (which is its warranty period) and that's it. Within their video, I see many design and construction processes that are "sloppy". Very sloppy. Construction methods that should NEVER be allowed within the TT industry.

If I was a trailer builder and knowing what I know today, I'd be embarassed to show others how to build a TT improperly. Dry fit windows, under grade insulation, no vapour barrier, floor spans too wide (which creates squeeky floors), drill holes in structure for water and electric lines (that can be routed much better).... Whether it be jayco or fleetwood or prowler, many of the TT's construction is garbage. Slap it together, makes it last base warranty and make money on parts replacements....

Sad that very few folks are educated in proper construction. Most focus on the "glossy" brochue and never look under their TT.

.
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:26 PM   #16
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From the folks that have actually seen the factory -- is that video reality? I dont see that folks are running like that and working that quick every day all day. Looked a little more like a choreographed show going on the background for the camera.
Hmmmmm, I would say that the 'highlights' that they showed in the video represented what we saw. Keeping in mind the actual tour was about an hour or so whereas the video was edited down to something like 10 minutes. Certain areas the workers were moving quickly where other area's more slowly. Some of the workers had very detail oriented jobs where others might have been moving/manipulating machinery.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:34 PM   #17
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Hey, Spike, no worries!

Well no I have not ripped the insulation and coraplex out from under my TT which is under warranty to disprove Jayco`s brochure yet, which I do take at face value, maybe I am being a little naiieve there. I can tell you I have 5/8" floor because I have removed a furnace register and measured the plywood there. And all the pex plumbing for fresh water on mine is inside the trailer, not under it. But there still could be some large holes drilled in the joists, as said I have not looked into that. Perhaps Jayco has upgraded things a bit since yours was built. I agree they are not perfect. I have seen a few things on mine that could have been done differently. I think part of it is the desire to keep weights down and cater to a public that wants to be able to tow with half tons, etc. I`m not new to construction either be it home or docks and yes even TT`s. My previous TT which was a Coachmen, had a leak by the door. I had to rip up the floor, dig out the old OSB which literally melted when wet, Dig out the wet insulation, Dry the whole area with a fan,cut the whole to square, install new joists and plywood, reinstall linoleum and molding. Now that OSB in that TT was junk, even where it was dry it sagged when you walked on it. BTW I`m also a 16" on center guy in my building! Best of luck, Lee
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:48 PM   #18
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That was a good video. If they were assembled over a longer time period the price would just go up on every model. The system seems to work good. Throw them together and then fix any oops that occures at a later date like at the dealers.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:00 AM   #19
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We were planning on making a stop at the factory for a tour on our cross country trip this summer. We are watching gas prices just hope they stop going up soon.

Mary Anne
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:57 PM   #20
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Sharp analysis, Spike. For this construction challenged guy, are there some of those things that can be done at home before problems develop, like maybe window caulking?
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