Victron Battery Charger - Page 2

DonBr · 09-12-2022, 05:38 PM

The 30A output at 14.2 volts, with 94% power factor of the charger, equals 3.78 amps at 120V. More if, for example, the power is only 110V.

The water heater is 1440 watts of resistive load, so 100% power factor. That's 12A at 120V. So, combined, they exceed the 15A breaker by a bit, and more if the voltage is low. I don't see any downside to having it on 15A output (1.89A draw) by default, and only jumping to 30A if/when needed.

Forester2 · 09-15-2022, 10:05 AM

Interesting conversatiin at the show with WFCO factory guy. Explained my concern and he felt with great certainy that something else was confusing or over riding the converter like the solar controller. He emphasized that the output from converter must go directly to the battery bank. I'll have to check, but I remember it splicing into a red wire which would be shared with somthing else.

He was also very familar with the 8th orange wire some of you have. It is for a battery disconnect and should have a switch to make it function.

Nice visit with the Battleborn and Micro Air folks too (a soft start unit did follow me home).

TomC_AZ · 09-15-2022, 11:15 AM

That is interesting about the 8th wire. In actually mapping it out it bypasses the disconnect switch and goes direct back to the batteries. Did he happen to mention if they offered it up to retail sales shops?

You will like the soft start, simple install and well worth it even if you don't have the inverter etc yet. It will make the AC start easier and quieter. Although our AC is just loud any way due to the dumping of the air.

Forester2 · 09-15-2022, 12:49 PM

He said , as you know, made especially for Jayco so probably not in retail. All units being shipped to manufactures now are AD units (figure after I bought one). New 166 I looked at had AD. Also new style stabilizers.

DonBr · 09-15-2022, 01:31 PM

Sounds like the AD has a re-bulk-start voltage that is lower than the solar controller ever gets, so it won't go into bulk mode and stays in float/storage.

Forester2 · 09-15-2022, 02:09 PM

Thats a good guess. I have to check wire routeing but WFCO guy was adament that converter must go direct to battery. He asked me to send him photos of wire routeing.

DonBr · 09-15-2022, 04:17 PM

Where on earth would it go except straight to the battery? It may pass through a bus bar, but I fail to see how a single small gauge wire taken to the battery post would change anything. If the solar controller is setting the voltage it will be within .1 at the controller to what it is at the battery.

Forester2 · 09-16-2022, 03:00 PM

Im at a disadvantage because Im not looking at it, but if I remember my conversation with him it is a 10ga wire coming from converter. Not a very small wire to me. Going from memeory, I recall a wire like that spliced to a red wire that goes 2 directions. Im almost thinking its the wire from the roof heading to solar controller. If thats the case its before the controller and carrying a voltage that I could see screwing things up. Wont know until I pull things apart.

DonBr · 09-16-2022, 03:15 PM

All things are relative. My wire from the onboard converter is 10 gauge. My wire from the solar controller is 8 gauge, but in the factory install it was 10 gauge. Both connected to the bus behind the water heater, which is then connected to the hot side of the red switch, which is then connected to the battery. Unless one of the nuts on the bus or switch are loose, that is equal to directly connecting to the battery. On my system everything now runs to/from buses next to the battery. The bus connects to the battery with 2/0 wire. The solar connects to the bus with 8 gauge wire. The Victron charger connects to the bus with 6 gauge wire.

In terms of relativity, if all wires were solid copper, 8 gauge is 1.6 times the surface of 10 gauge. 6 gauge is 1.6 times the surface of 8 gauge. 2/0 is 5 times the surface of 6 gauge. Things are a bit different with stranded, but the relativity is similar. So, to me, while 10 gauge is fine for fairly long 120VAC wiring, it is rather small when it comes to 12VDC.

Forester2 · 09-20-2022, 05:07 PM

Again showing my lack of electrical engineering knowledge, the Battle Born rep suggester the Pro Dynamics PD9160 ALV converter. Imput power is rated at 725 watts. Im not seeing any reason I could plug that into the outlets in the outdoor ref compartment and just hook up my generator to the regular shore power line. Pretty short run to send 8 gauge wire right to the batteries from there. Am I missing anything? Nice big space with the door open for ventilation.

TomC_AZ · 09-20-2022, 06:16 PM

To be safe you would be better off just plugging the ALV converter directly into the generator. If it is plugged into one of the sockets on the inside of the trailer it could possibly create a loop back to the inverter which would then fry it and possibly the batteries. This is because the inverter is connected to the 110 on the trailer and connected to the same 12v batteries. There are ways to isolate this but simply plugging the charger into the generator is easiest.

Forester2 · 09-20-2022, 06:20 PM

I dont have an inverter but plugging directly to the generator does seem to be the most efficent and make the most sense. Just wish cord was longer on converter.

DonBr · 09-20-2022, 06:26 PM

Sure, I don't know if that one is easier than the one in the passthrough. Generally you would not have anything like I have with the water heater on the circuit. Just bear in mind that ALL outlets except the ones the Microwave and Water Heater are on the same circuit, so you wouldn't want to run a toaster or coffee pot at the same time as the charger.

As far as the 8 gauge wire goes, at 13.8V 60 amps the maximum run recommended is 7 feet or so, while 6 gauge is fine to 12 feet, 4 gauge to 18 feet and so on. I don't know what you wire run will be. For my Victron 30A charger they recommend 6 gauge, so I did, but it is overkill as I'm only running 6 feet and at that amperage and gauge it would be good to 24 feet.

TomC_AZ · 09-20-2022, 06:30 PM

For some reason I had thought you had a inverter, without one then yeah, no reason why you cannot use the plug inside the trailer. If wanted I recently picked up a dual pack of 20amp cords at Costco, they were like $39 for 50ft total. Even amazon didn't beat that. It allows me to run the trailer on a 15/20amp plug at home without issue.

Forester2 · 09-20-2022, 06:37 PM

Dons right on the pass thru being closer. Outdoor fridge spot is darn close with good ventilation space plus I feel I might beable to mount it out of the way of stuff bouncing around in pass thru. Store alot in former fridge spot but more room to designate a protected area. Didnt think wire size thru but need larger than 8!

TomC_AZ · 09-20-2022, 06:52 PM

Thats why I used the ceiling of the passthrough for my inverter and other solar equipment. While there is stuff inside there it has been totally fine over 10k miles. No scratches, dents etc... But you do have to make sure you put some wood up there and make sure that is into the cross studs of the bed. Otherwise your just screwing into the very thin plywood. You could possibly beef up the kitchen/stove side of the fridge space though behind the wall where the kitchen drawers are. Other than that the fridge space is only the thin wood as well. Pull off the panel (passengers side of passthrough) where the light switches, outlet and light are and you will see what I mean.

Forester2 · 09-20-2022, 06:59 PM

Good point! Was thinking ceiling of that compartment but learned how week it was when the drawers collapsed under TV. Can you mount this stuff upside down on the ceiling? Also thought of wall with battery cutoff switch but putting more blocking under bed plywood is as easy as it gets!

TomC_AZ · 09-20-2022, 07:47 PM

Yep all of it can be mounted upside down.

Onyrlef · 09-21-2022, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonBr

Sure, I don't know if that one is easier than the one in the passthrough. Generally you would not have anything like I have with the water heater on the circuit. Just bear in mind that ALL outlets except the ones the Microwave and Water Heater are on the same circuit, so you wouldn't want to run a toaster or coffee pot at the same time as the charger.

As far as the 8 gauge wire goes, at 13.8V 60 amps the maximum run recommended is 7 feet or so, while 6 gauge is fine to 12 feet, 4 gauge to 18 feet and so on. I don't know what you wire run will be. For my Victron 30A charger they recommend 6 gauge, so I did, but it is overkill as I'm only running 6 feet and at that amperage and gauge it would be good to 24 feet.

Amps being amps regardless whether it's DC or AC, I'm curious, as in, I likely need enlightened, why Victron is recommending 6 gauge for 30 amp even out to 24 feet.

DonBr · 09-21-2022, 06:45 AM

Sorry if I implied that Victron listed a distance for 6AWG. They simply say to use 6AWG, and have connections sized for it. The distance came from my dropping 13.8V at 30A into a wiring calculator, which said a bit under 24 feet was max for 2% power loss using 6 gauge. I know that not all charts/calculators will agree with one another; I was just pointing out that my 6 ft run was no issue.

As far as amps being amps, true, but there is skin effect with AC. Not germane to this discussion, but it does exist.

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