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Old 02-17-2020, 02:04 PM   #21
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I would imagine your fridge is going to around 700 watts so that is going to load down you power inverters to a good 60AMPS or so at 12VDC input from your battery... Not going to stay up very at the big of rate...

With my three GP24 12V Interstates in parallel on my trailer tongue will drain down from 12.6-7 VDC to 12.0VDC in about 4-5 hours just pulling a constant 12VDC at 25AMPS DC Current from my off-grid camping setup … My Power Inverter is an AIMS 600WATT PSW model... This is only running half power just pulling 25AMPS DC Current...

Takes a big battery bank to run just a few hours...

In my case we do very little use during the day just some lights etc and during the time from 4PM to 11PM we are watching TV and I am running my ham radio items and more lights etc... Any cooking we do is during the morning when we have our 2KW Generator running recharging the batteries...

Our small POPUP trailer fridge is not very much 12VDC drain and we have a big ice chest loaded down with ice to keep our meats etc frozen... We add more ice about every three days...

It takes planning on what you are going to do with you own camping requirements...

We learned all of our power short comings sitting in our driveway and making quick camping trips to a close by camp ground...

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Old 02-17-2020, 02:48 PM   #22
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Thanks Roy. Good analogy and coming from an electronics tech adds validity. I know there are quite a few highly technical members on here.

Thanks everyone for your input. It's going to come down to some good old troubleshooting. If and when I resolve this, I'll try to remember to post the answer.
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Old 02-17-2020, 05:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSmart View Post
Thanks Roy. Good analogy and coming from an electronics tech adds validity. I know there are quite a few highly technical members on here.

Thanks everyone for your input. It's going to come down to some good old troubleshooting. If and when I resolve this, I'll try to remember to post the answer.
This is a great tool to have on hand being the CRFTSMAN AC/DC Amp meter.

You can tell right away how many amps are being drawn just clamp around the positive wire...


google image...

I use this all the time troubleshooting…

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Old 02-22-2020, 02:17 PM   #24
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New trailer with very little use as of yet.

We have a 1200 watt Xanrex Freedom X inverter and a 21 cu ft Whirlpool residential fridge. The battery is a new 12v 130AH deep cycle. (group 31)
I wanted to test the setup before heading out on a trip so having house fed power to the trailer and the battery being fully charged, I tripped the main breaker off and turn the inverter on from the remote panel. The fridge cooling is off but the display is illuminated to indicate 'Cooling Off'. My problem is that the xantrex display is indicating 13.1 volts at startup and slowly drops to 12.1 volts in about 3 - 4 minutes. What can be drawing so much power? Has anyone else seen this happen?
I had to put in 3 group 31deep cycle batteries in order to keep my residential fridge running all night. You need to be plugged into shore power for 24 hr at least to get full charge. If you use a generator for about 4hr a day it will go all night on a charge but it won’t last as long as you only get a surface charge with shorter charge times
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Old 02-22-2020, 02:19 PM   #25
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I would like to chime in here also, reason being is because I have the same issue going on with my new Jayco Eagle Fifth wheel. I have 3 100ah agm's in parallel and they can't make it thru the night w/o dying (i.e. 12 volts or less) when fully charged the night before. I haven't solved the problem yet either since I don't have the proper testing equipment. I did notice that even with the battery disconnect switch in the off position that there is still a significant draw on the batteries. My next step is to place a clamp on meter on the batteries and troubleshoot from there. I'd recommend you do the same. P.S. I'd also recommend staying in close contact with your RV dealer/service provider.
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Old 02-22-2020, 02:25 PM   #26
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I don’t know both my residential fridges in the last 2 RV 2016 fusion an 2018 sandpiper had 1000 watt inverters the only problem I had was if I left the inverter on while plugged in to shore power it would shout down after about 1hr and the only way I could get it to come back to life was to take out the low voltage fuse and put it back in then all was normal
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Old 02-22-2020, 02:34 PM   #27
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Draw with breaker off

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Originally Posted by DrSmart View Post
Thanks mini4mw. Once we head south and get into warmer climate, I'll follow that advice. The breakers shouldn't be in the picture though since I had tripped the main 50's. That should kill everything on the AC panel. I'll pull anything plugged into the inverter first to make sure it's not the problem. Then I can pull the DC fuses and narrow it down.
Even with breaker off that’s for 110 service, there are multiple items that run off your battery (ie furnace, fridge, detectors and other items. I also recommend at least two batteries.
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Old 02-22-2020, 03:04 PM   #28
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Inverter problem

I had a problem where I was losing power. What I found was the factory never connected the wiring properly to the inverter. Instead of installing the wires in the clamps, they were just laying on the clamps. The white neutral was starting to overheat and insulation burnt. I was lucky to find this before we had a fire. The problem you have sounds like the problem I was having. Good luck.
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Old 02-22-2020, 04:02 PM   #29
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Check for a defective brake away swirch.
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Old 02-22-2020, 05:08 PM   #30
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Check for a defective brake away swirch.

If that was activated, it would certainly draw quite a bit of power. I've had it pull out on a tight turn and the truck/trailer came to an abrupt stop. I'll check it but in this case, the battery is holding at 13.1 volts until I power on the inverter. That leads me to believe it's either the inverter or the AC load on the inverter.
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Old 02-23-2020, 07:59 AM   #31
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If you are going to power a fridge from an inverter, you really out to consider lithiums, maybe battleborne. Two at a minimum. A 130 ah flooded cell battery’s capacity is 1/2 of the rated ah’s, because if you repeatedly take it below the 50% point, you will start to calcify the plates and soon they will be toast. The lithium batteries can be drained until their bms says no more, and they shut off to protect themselves.
If you do change to lithium, you really need to change out the converter also, so that the charge requirements are met properly. Another great advantage is that they charge faster, meaning less gen time.
An even more optimized system would be a 24 volt battery bank, which lets you use thinner wires as current required is halved, and efficiency goes up. The rv 12 load is taken by a inexpensive converter that changes 24 to 12 output.
2 100 ah lithium batteries have 200 ah’s of USEABLE output, vs maybe 70 ah of useable output from a 130 ah flooded cell. The battleborne only weigh 30lbs a piece. Also, once you get those set up, adding solar if desired is fairly inexpensive.
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Old 02-23-2020, 03:53 PM   #32
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This is likely to be an off the wall comment. All the "monkey motion" with breakers and so on might not be a problem, but why not just pull the shore power plug? That's how it works in real life camping situations. You simply don't plug in.

Using an inverter, one would not flip breakers. If there's no shore power the inverter is either manually activated, or it's tripped on by the built in transfer switch (I think your Xanrex has one.)

I get your concern with the seemingly over the top draw, but the Xanrex may not be measuring at the right spot.

First, get and install a proper battery monitor. If you plan to boondock at all...thus the inverter...don't scrimp on this, because you only get to use about half of the battery bank's supply before you must charge. In your case, 65 amp hours. Try your voltage/current test using the battery monitor, and see what's really happening.

At full tilt boogie, the inverter sucking 1200 watts from the battery, you're pulling 100 amps. Your battery can support that for only about 40 minutes. But the battery monitor will tell you if there is a HUGE load from the inverter. Your fridge should only demand about 200 to 300 watts when running, so your battery should support that load continuously for about 2 1/2 hours...about 25 amps. See calculator below.

Battery Monitor Options: https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=12+volt...f=nb_sb_noss_1

A better test. If you have easy access to the inverter, I suggest that you test the inverter to rule out problems. This is an easy test.
1. Pull the shore power plug...do NOT mess with any breakers. Leave everything as normal.
2. Manual inverter? Turn it on. Transfer switch inverter? if the inverter is on, let it do its thing.
3. If it has easy access front outlets (almost all do and yours claims to), shut OFF the inverter's output supplying the coach. You want only one load. There should be an output breaker on the back of the inverter. If not, pull the wires from the output temporarily. I think yours has an output breaker.
4. Test the inverter. Use something like an electric heater with known output. A resistive load is reliable. My ceramic heater has a 700 watt setting and a higher setting. I'd use the 700 watt setting and turn the heater on full so it draws continuously...put it outside if you have to so any thermostat on the heater does not shut it off.
5. This calculator will help. https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/ele...alculator.html In the case of a 700 watt load thru the inverter, you will draw 58 amps (per hour) with that heater. You'll use 90% of the battery in one hour...58 out of 65 amp hours. This makes the test efficient and easy.
6. Check your battery monitor frequently during the test. At no point should you allow the battery to drop very much below 50% charge before terminating the test. And, if current draw is off the charts with this known load (e.g. 100 amps instead of 60 amps), your inverter might be the problem.

If you get 1 hour out of the battery thru the inverter at 700 watts (allowing for inefficiencies, parasitic loads, and so on, you are getting what you paid for - especially in battery supply. Also note that high-amp draws drain a battery more quickly. They are tested and rated at a steady 20 amp draw. So at close to 60 amps, the battery will not last quite a full hour. Watch the monitor.

Now figure the load the fridge and other loads (both 12 volt and 120 volt appliances) place on that battery and recognize that you don't have nearly enough battery to be running much on that little group 31.

The gold standard in flooded cell batteries is 4 x 6 volt golf cart batteries in series/parallel that will deliver about 225 USABLE amp hours. About 4 times what your group 31 can deliver. There are other options, e.g. LiFePo an others that are even better. But for about $500 altogether, 4 x 6 volts are a bargain that delivers about all the power you'll need...assuming you have the charging capacity to support them.

But know this. Your group 31 can't handle this job. Remember that it can run that residential fridge for roughly 2 1/2 hours of run time. Even an incredibly efficient fridge has a duty cycle greater than 10% run time. Add in lights, water pump, furnace (think 10 amps when running) and yada yada yada and your little battery will do well to make it through the night...to say nothing of 24 hours. Do the math on the fridge. 24 hours x 10% = 2.4 hours. 2.4 x 25 amps = 60 amp hours. Your battery will struggle to run that fridge and nothing else. Forget living in the camper.

Which brings us to charging. If you just love the sound of a generator, skip this part. But if you go boondocking for some peace and quiet, 6 to 8 hours of run time on your genny is no fun...for you or your beleaguered neighbors. Look into solar, and lots of it.
I have this kit on my rig. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...52ZD0WKH0X7DRC
In sunny Colorado, this can pretty much handle my day-to-day consumption.
In your case, with that residential fridge, you might want to double this charging capacity. Just attach the panels to the roof and connect the charge controller(s) straight to the battery bank. Easy peasy.

Each 100 watt panel can deliver about 5 to 7 amps per hour during peak time...2 to 3 hours midday in full sun. Let's say 5 amps per hour for 2 hours per panel. My 4 panels deliver 40 amp hours to the battery bank from about 10 AM to Noon (daylight savings time), and in the shoulder periods will deliver another 40 to 60 amp hours altogether...dawn to dusk. I'm good with 80 to 100 usable amp hours. I have a propane fridge and a much smaller camper. And any time I wan't to run a 120 volt appliance (microwave) I fire up the genny for a few minutes. 15 minutes of generator time in the AM will push at least another 7 amp hours into the battery (at the bulk charge rate...when the converter's cooling fan comes on). Not so much in the evening, because the solar already has the battery bank topped off (the converter will deliver a much lower charge rate...but maybe another amp hour or two).

In closing, if you can't detect a problem with the inverter, that's great. I suspect there is no problem. But you're going to have to amp up the battery bank a whole lot if you expect to survive in the boonies with a residential fridge. That is, after all, what the inverter is for...that and running the fridge while you're on the road and only supplying a trickle charge through the 7 pin connector from the tow vehicle. And if you don't have a sweet little Onan onboard (they're pretty quiet), you should think twice about forcing neighbors to endure the racket from a freestanding Honda or otherwise droning on for endless hours. That's a good way to make enemies.

Good luck.

P.S. Any dealer that would send your rig, equipped as it is, off the lot with a pathetic group 24 (35 to 40 usable amp hours) needs a kick in the ass. Had you said, "No, I plan on installing my own battery bank," that's another matter. The dealer could have sent you home with a used group 24 to make things work right. But that does not seem to be the case. As others have said, two group 31s would be the bare minimum. And even with roughly 130 usable amp hours available, that's not nearly enough to run a camper where the fridge alone eats nearly 65 of those amp hours.
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Old 02-23-2020, 04:18 PM   #33
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jimmoore13. Thank you so much for taking the time to write such an in depth approach on troubleshooting this problem and for your suggestions on upgrading. I plan to be at the trailer soon and will start the process.
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Old 02-23-2020, 09:20 PM   #34
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You're battery charger is off right? That will drain them quick with an inverter.
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:59 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSmart View Post
New trailer with very little use as of yet.

We have a 1200 watt Xanrex Freedom X inverter and a 21 cu ft Whirlpool residential fridge. The battery is a new 12v 130AH deep cycle. (group 31)
I wanted to test the setup before heading out on a trip so having house fed power to the trailer and the battery being fully charged, I tripped the main breaker off and turn the inverter on from the remote panel. The fridge cooling is off but the display is illuminated to indicate 'Cooling Off'. My problem is that the xantrex display is indicating 13.1 volts at startup and slowly drops to 12.1 volts in about 3 - 4 minutes. What can be drawing so much power? Has anyone else seen this happen?

Finally got out to the trailer yesterday to test the Whirlpool residential fridge draw on the inverter. This is what I found:
-To prevent the inverter load from dropping my battery voltage and allow me to run some tests, I used jumper cables from the truck to the trailer battery. This maintained 13.2 volts at the trailer battery.
-Trailer battery cutoff switch in off posn -0.86 amps draw from trailer.
-Trailer battery cutoff switch in on posn - 2.9 amps draw " "
-Fridge first turned on - 16amps draw at the battery
-After a short time the draw dropped to 10.9 amps
-The inverter display panel indicated 115 watts load
-I then switched off all the AC breakers except the main ganged 50 amp breaker and didn't see much change in inverter load.

-The load gradually dropped to 101 - 104 watts on the inverter even with all the breakers turned back on and the fridge cooling.

-I then disconnected the truck power and the trailer battery started to drop. At 12.6 volts battery voltage, I went in and looked at the inverter panel. It was indicating 12.2 volts.



Now when I have time to go back and test again, I'll be checking connection and wire guage used between the battery and the inverter input. Also will be getting the battery load tested.
With only a 10 - 11 amp load when the fridge is running, the truck shouldn't have any problem maintaining a charge. The line feeding the trailer battery from the truck 7 pin connector is 10 gauge with a 30 amp fuse at the truck fuse block.
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Old 08-09-2020, 04:20 PM   #36
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You may also want to consider that your inverter itself will draw current, even when it's not loaded.
Your handbook should give you the figure, but I've seen estimates of up to 2A
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Old 08-09-2020, 04:42 PM   #37
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You may also want to consider that your inverter itself will draw current, even when it's not loaded.
Your handbook should give you the figure, but I've seen estimates of up to 2A

True. Also the wifi hub would take a little. Those 2 modules were powered by the inverter.
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Old 08-09-2020, 10:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSmart View Post
Finally got out to the trailer yesterday to test the Whirlpool residential fridge draw on the inverter. This is what I found:
-To prevent the inverter load from dropping my battery voltage and allow me to run some tests, I used jumper cables from the truck to the trailer battery. This maintained 13.2 volts at the trailer battery.
-Trailer battery cutoff switch in off posn -0.86 amps draw from trailer.
-Trailer battery cutoff switch in on posn - 2.9 amps draw " "
-Fridge first turned on - 16amps draw at the battery
-After a short time the draw dropped to 10.9 amps
-The inverter display panel indicated 115 watts load
-I then switched off all the AC breakers except the main ganged 50 amp breaker and didn't see much change in inverter load.

-The load gradually dropped to 101 - 104 watts on the inverter even with all the breakers turned back on and the fridge cooling.

-I then disconnected the truck power and the trailer battery started to drop. At 12.6 volts battery voltage, I went in and looked at the inverter panel. It was indicating 12.2 volts.



Now when I have time to go back and test again, I'll be checking connection and wire guage used between the battery and the inverter input. Also will be getting the battery load tested.
With only a 10 - 11 amp load when the fridge is running, the truck shouldn't have any problem maintaining a charge. The line feeding the trailer battery from the truck 7 pin connector is 10 gauge with a 30 amp fuse at the truck fuse block.
The best solution is one I did. A 4 gauge cable fused for 60 amps at the truck battery, to a connector ny the hitch, to a dc to dc charger ( I used a victron 30 amp which actually charges the trailer battery at about 36 amps - lithium battery). The charger will draw about 45 amps from the truck. You will NEVER get anything close to a 30 amp charge off the truck oem wires. More like a couple, or five, that’s about it.
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Old 08-10-2020, 05:32 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSmart View Post
Finally got out to the trailer yesterday to test the Whirlpool residential fridge draw on the inverter. This is what I found:
-To prevent the inverter load from dropping my battery voltage and allow me to run some tests, I used jumper cables from the truck to the trailer battery. This maintained 13.2 volts at the trailer battery.
-Trailer battery cutoff switch in off posn -0.86 amps draw from trailer.
-Trailer battery cutoff switch in on posn - 2.9 amps draw " "
-Fridge first turned on - 16amps draw at the battery
-After a short time the draw dropped to 10.9 amps
-The inverter display panel indicated 115 watts load
-I then switched off all the AC breakers except the main ganged 50 amp breaker and didn't see much change in inverter load.

-The load gradually dropped to 101 - 104 watts on the inverter even with all the breakers turned back on and the fridge cooling.

-I then disconnected the truck power and the trailer battery started to drop. At 12.6 volts battery voltage, I went in and looked at the inverter panel. It was indicating 12.2 volts.



Now when I have time to go back and test again, I'll be checking connection and wire guage used between the battery and the inverter input. Also will be getting the battery load tested.
With only a 10 - 11 amp load when the fridge is running, the truck shouldn't have any problem maintaining a charge. The line feeding the trailer battery from the truck 7 pin connector is 10 gauge with a 30 amp fuse at the truck fuse block.
These #'s are not correct. Either they voltage or they are wrong #'s.
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Old 08-10-2020, 05:59 AM   #40
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New trailer with very little use as of yet.

We have a 1200 watt Xanrex Freedom X inverter and a 21 cu ft Whirlpool residential fridge. The battery is a new 12v 130AH deep cycle. (group 31)
My problem is that the xantrex display is indicating 13.1 volts at startup and slowly drops to 12.1 volts in about 3 - 4 minutes. What can be drawing so much power? Has anyone else seen this happen?
I missed the "residential fridge" the first time. Here's the problem. The residential fridge is a 120 volt device. You are powering it from a 12 volt source through an inverter. In order to get 120 volts from 12 you will eat a lot of amps from your battery. If your fridge is say 100 watts, watts = volts times amps. So to get 100 watts on the 120 volt side of the inverter: 100 divided by 120 = .833 amps; However 100 divided by 12 = 8.33 amps on the 12 volt side of the inverter. Therefore, your battery is being discharged very rapidly through your inverter to power your fridge. With two batteries connected your current draw from each would be about half from each battery.
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