Newbie ....Pathfinder and SLX174BH

[mairew]

Hi guys,

Totally new to all this, but have scoured the boards and I never realized it was all so complicated. Slightly overwhelmed.

I am in the market for a new car so looking at a potential TV mostly used as the family car. Just looked at the 2017 Pathfinder V6 2WD today. Tow capacity at 6000, and payload at 1149 (as per the sticker on the door). Dealer installed tow package. Need the SUV for the extra seating for the school runs around town as opposed to a pickup.

Anyway, have looked at several lightweight trailers under 22 ft. The no 1 on my list is SXL174BH which is GVWR at 3500 lbs. My question is the same as every newbie who stalks the forum. Will my TV be enough for my TT?

[jsallman1]

Sounds like you have the numbers you need and an understanding of payload vs tow capacity, which is a GREAT start. Also kudos for asking this stuff before you make a mistake like some of us (myself included) have.

That Payload sticker is the amount your TV can hold as it left the factory, the tongue weight of the trailer when towing counts against this.

If you're at 10% tongue weight (might be a hair low, 12-13 is probably a better number especially with a short wheelbase TV) thats 350lbs assuming your GVWR weight of 3500, which may be a little high.

Start subtracting off that door sticker number, so 1149 - 350 (tongue weight) - 100 (weight distributing hitch weight ballpark) - weight of DEALER installed or after market hitch receiver (factory shouldn't matter) - weight of passengers in car (your payload may have assumed a light driver, just FYI, check the manual) - weight of stuff in care that was not from factory (luggage, add ones like after market roof racks, etc) is the math. The close to 0 you get, the tighter you are, go below 0, you are overweight on payload.

Now, you mentioned your GVWR, your likely to be a little under that on actual trailer weight, thats the maximum you want the trailer to weigh with all your stuff, water, etc in it. Be careful however on using the dry weight on the trailer, because that doesn't generally include things like the LP Bottles, the Battery, all your stuff in the camper, which can add up quickly. Assuming your GVWR is definitely the safe way to do the calculation.

Its really too bad that car and camper dealers wont let you load up the family and all your stuff int he TV and TV/TT combination and run it over to a scale. I suppose if you really wanted to do that with the TV at least, you could rent one for a weekend and load it up, give it a shot.

[sennister]

You want 10-15% Tongue weight. The more the better so 15% is better than 10% consider 10% bare min. So lets split the difference.

3500x.13= 455
3500x.15= 525.

Pretty much ignore the 6000 tow capacity. It never matters.

The payload is the important one.

So they assume you weigh 150# if you don't (I sure don't) take 150# off you weight or someone else. Add up your other passengers, pets, cargo in the truck. Then add the lets say 500 (from the above) for the tongue weight. Not sure if you need a weight distributing hitch for that. It is well under 600# limit for most Class III hitches but check the owners manual. If you need one because of it being over the limit (probably not) but you might still need one to level the truck depending on the suspension. That will add another 80-100# you don't need a big one so maybe closer to 80.

Add all that up and see how close you are to that 1149# cargo number. That is what you are working against.

[mairew]

Sigh. This is so complicated. Its really impossible to be sure the TV is adequate until you get it all hitched up and weighed. But that's a problem since I don't have a TV or TT.

So if my payload is 1149, and my (estimated weights) TW is 420lbs, WDH 75lbs, passengers (exclude driver) 220lbs, cargo 200 lbs, my weight is about 915lbs with 234lbs left over. Is that enough?

[jsallman1]

Originally Posted by mairew

So if my payload is 1149, and my (estimated weights) TW is 420lbs, WDH 75lbs, passengers (exclude driver) 220lbs, cargo 200 lbs, my weight is about 915lbs with 234lbs left over. Is that enough?

Post is a little lengthy, apologies for that, I am hoping its helpful. The big thing is YOU have to be comfortable, and trust me, I know thats hard.

If it helps, Your calculations look right and it appears you will be under payload as long as the numbers are right. Double and triple think those TV cargo numbers, and you have 220lbs for passengers NOW, but did you think about what those passengers may weigh in 3-5 years, did you include any carseats (since they weren't in the car when the payload was calculated, you gotta count them), does the pathfinder come with a factory spare tire, if not are you gonna add one (again, take away from payload).

Also, You mentioned DEALER installed hitch in your post, that one caught my attention above. If the DEALER installed it, you probably have to count that big iron hunk of receiver, which will probably be over 100lb by itself. If its a FACTORY installed receiver, you don't need to count it. The factory put that sticker on, the dealer wont/cant change it to my knowledge, it is what it is, so if the Dealer adds something, it works against you.

You can also look for weight savings in areas like the WDH, the Anderson no-sway seems to be gaining popularity and doesn't weigh much. There are several posts out there on the various forums about peoples thoughts on these.

As for the camper, you did 420LBS, you're probably not going to be putting water in it when your towing, but dry, thats not a terrible number, but could be a hair on the low side loaded. If you got to your worst at 15% of GVWR, 525, assuming your numbers above remain consistent you would be flirting with 100lbs left on the payload.

I was in your same situation except I had already purchased a 1/2 ton (and a fairly high payload 1/2 ton at that) that was advertised to tow over 10k lbs, which is way more than my trailer weighs, and too big of a trailer. Then I started learning what your learning now that there is this thing called Payload and that wonderful door sticker.

My scale results showed me I was running 100-200lbs over the payload/rear axle weighs even though my assumed weight math showed I should be within my TV limits. I determined that with exceptionally careful packing, I could have kept the truck at or very near its payload and rear axle limits. I had even gone as far as I bought a portable tongue scale so every time we loaded up with the 1/2 ton I new exactly where we were on the trailer tongue weight.

I ultimately decided that was going to be a pain for the long haul, get harder as kids grew, wanted bicycles, more stuff, etc and got a good deal on a HD truck and trade in that was basically a payment wash for me, I just get to pay a little longer. To me, it was worth it to be under my payload and have peace of mind but thats a decision each individual needs to make. I can honestly say when I look at my rig now, I do occasionally have the thought "Man, if I had just bought a foot shorter trailer" but I cant change that now and overall am happy. Now I don't have to worry about it, I am barely touching 1/2 my payload number with the trailer and truck loaded. I am afraid with the scenario you are thinking about, your going to be close to being in the same position I was, and it wouldn't surprise me entirely if when you get all your equipment, and load stuff, you find yourself a little over weight.


I know this may not be the concrete answer you want to hear, but my best advice knowing what I know now, look around at the various manufacturers, go to dealer lots or search online for images of those tire and loading info stickers, compare payload numbers on similar vehicles (Pathfinder, Highlander, 4 Runner, Explorer, Traverse, etc), note the differences you see before you commit. Models will vary, and trim levels (the fancier the car, the more weight in it) will vary. Even look at some of the larger models like the Sequoia, Tahoe, etc. You might not find they have that terribly greater payload. I did this and actually found 3/4 Ton trucks on lots that had within 100LBS of the payload number of my old 1/2 ton, I was shocked and baffled.

I am thinking a bit on the fly as I type here, but You could even go as far as to try to rent a similar vehicle (or use your current one actually if you have something) and do a test load, cant have the trailer obviously, but first empty the thing out so NOTHING is in it except a full tank of gas and you, find a cat scale, get a weight. Then load it up with a weekends worth of camping stuff, and all your passengers, refill the tank, and go back and see the difference you add to your front and rear axle. That will give you a really good idea what the weight differential with your stuff in the TV is going to be. Basically the total weight you get on your second pass - the total weight you get on your first pass is the number you need to take off your payload on your new TV to accommodate your family and cargo. Whats left has to cover your tongue weight and WD hitch.

Your 1 questionable area in this weighing scenario is the weight of the driver. Generally payload includes the driver from what I have read, but it may be that ideal 125-150lb driver, so if your driver happens to weigh more than that, you might reduce your payload number a little more if your trying to stick exactly to the manufacturer number.

You obviously can't get individual axle weights either without having actual equipment, but unless your VERY close to your numbers, your probably not real likely to run into a situation where your under a TV payload but over the rear axle rating unless you just have a TON of stuff in the back of the TV.

[mairew]

Thanks for the responses.
The driver weight is good at 150lb but you are right the dealer installed hitch would need to be included. Husband thinks the Pathfinder is not suitable and we need to look at fullsize pick up. Back to the drawing board .....

[sennister]

Originally Posted by mairew

Sigh. This is so complicated. Its really impossible to be sure the TV is adequate until you get it all hitched up and weighed. But that's a problem since I don't have a TV or TT.

So if my payload is 1149, and my (estimated weights) TW is 420lbs, WDH 75lbs, passengers (exclude driver) 220lbs, cargo 200 lbs, my weight is about 915lbs with 234lbs left over. Is that enough?

You are right that this is complicated but I don't know I would say it is impossible to be sure the TV is adequate until it is hitched up.

That is why if you look at my numbers above I was using the GVWR of the trailer. As you go around looking at campers look at this number. They will also have another sticker (A yellow one on my camper) that has what your camper weighed at the factory when it rolled off the production line. The difference between this number and the GVWR of the trailer is the cargo capacity much like what the TV has.

When doing these estimates you could take that empty weight, add in weight for the battery, propane tank(s) and all the stuff you are putting in it which I agree would be impossible unless you hitched up and went to a CAT Scale.

Instead of doing that when shopping use that GVWR to estimate tongue weight. That is the not to exceed weight rating for the camper with all that stuff in it. Odds are you won't be that heavy, but do check because if you are over you are going to need to shed weight from the camper. So when I was doing my estimates above I was taking that GVWR and ran the 15% TW. That really is your worst case TW going against the cargo of your camper of 525lbs. Again this is worst case. If you are running close to that GVWR, with creative loading you can shift weight to the back of the camper and maybe get it down to 12-13% freeing up some weight for the truck.

So the good news is the hard work of the calculations are really done provided that is the camper you want.

Lets bump that TW to 525 since that is your worst case. While you can play the balance game it isn't fun. It is more fun to just hitch and go. If it were me, load the camper not the truck. If you can shift most of the 200lbs of cargo to the camper (without going over the camper's GVWR) then that is better. Keep in mind when you move the cargo from the truck to the camper, you are only carrying 12-15% of that 200lbs. So that 200lbs of cargo now only counts toward 24-30lbs of the cargo in the truck. So here is my math.

525+75+220=820 then plus some cargo but try and keep most of that 200 in the camper. So lets call it 900 when you account for some growth.

So with the Pathfinder you could be sitting not too bad if that is the truck you like. If you think you are looking for something bigger just keep that 900lbs of cargo in mind and look at the door sticker of trucks. As these really are worst case numbers.

As mentioned it is important to feel safe. I don't remember if you said where you are and what you plan on doing with the camper. If I was in the mountains or planned on crossing the US in long road trips all summer, I would probably want more truck. If you are not dealing with a lot of hills, not much semi traffic, doing local trips in the 300 mile range with flexibility to decide maybe you don't want to pull the trailer because there is a wind advisory with 40-50 mph gusts, then you might be fine pushing the limits a bit more. Though I don't care how big your truck is wind that strong shouldn't be driven in anyhow.

I would say if anything you are doing it right. By finding the camper first it is easier because you can run these estimates and compare TV. For us we did it the other way. I ran the calculations from my cargo capacity on the truck because we were getting a new camper not a new truck. With my calculations I came up with a trailer weighing 7000 GVWR as my pushing it limit and bought a camper with a GVWR of 6750 knowing I am going to try and stay away from that number anyhow. Where people run into problems is when they buy both first by only looking at the tow rating which means little to nothing.

[mairew]

Thanks for your response. Sorry I got sided tracked. Spring break here!

I am living in Texas, so most of the travelling with trailer would be flat terrain, weekend length trips, at least at the start. Who knows, maybe I will LOVE trailering and visit every state

I am kinda off the Nissan Pathfinder as the TV. Maybe a Dodge Durango, but very difficult to locate one with Trailering Package, at least here in Texas. Seems to have decent payload and towing capacity (1400/6200) with wheel base of 119.

If I have to go to a truck (sad face), I leaning towards a Toyota Tundra. There are so many truck configurations its insane! I cant keep them all straight.

[01tundra]

Originally Posted by mairew

If I have to go to a truck (sad face), I leaning towards a Toyota Tundra. There are so many truck configurations its insane! I cant keep them all straight.

Don't want to be debbie downer here, but having previously owned two Tundras they typically have some fairly low payload numbers.

They will be more than the Pathfinder, but just wanted you to be aware and not get into an dissapointing issue down the road after spending a bunch of money.

Should be fine with the numbers you're talking about, but it's not like a lot of people (including myself) thought...."I'm going to a 1/2-ton truck so I never have to worry about this payload bs again". Not all trucks are created equal when it comes to payload ratings and never trust anything you see on a manufacture's website, those numbers seem to always be inflated....it's not unusual of to find Tundras with payloads rated in the 1,400 lb. range.

[charles_cincy]

Check the manual for your TV...

Often 150# driver is included in tow ratings, but *NOT* payload capacity...

So there goes another 150#