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Old 02-11-2013, 09:51 AM   #11
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Just for reference, here is the difference in payload in my two trucks, both 2004 Chevy`s:

1500 "1/2 ton" payload 1454 lbs. Tow rating 8,100 lbs.
2500 "3/4 ton" payload 3474 lbs. Tow rating 10,000 lbs.

Note the huge difference in payload, but not so much in tow rating. This is one often overlooked but very important major difference in these trucks and why the salesman in many cases dwell only on the tow rating.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:10 AM   #12
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The manufactures specified curb weight of the TV "includes" the weight of a full tank of fuel, in this case the curb weight is 5,393lbs. The CAT scale gross weight of 6,500lbs represents only the added passenger weight and the weight of the TV's options ...., totaling 1,107lbs. The 1,107lbs is a little higher then the norm when one considers that it doesn't include any cargo in the TV.

Bob
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:06 PM   #13
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Hi Bob,
this is similar to my problem with the 6200/6800 ratio for my RAM 1500. Wazzurver needs to hypothetically move all content, if any, excluding the passengers from his TV and move that payload to the trailer, where it will only have a 10-15% effect on the TV payload and do a second measure. It's funny though, the RAM has a GCAWR of 7800 lbs....semi's when the go to the CAT scales are only concern with the GAWR's why is the law different for pickups, what is safety and what is warranty? There are huge inconsistencies with GVWR and GAWR ratios between the different OEM's, as I mentioned before the Ram is rated to carry only 87% of it's GVWR/GAWR ratio, whereas Ford is allowed >91%, again what is safe here? Something else that is also never discussed, in any detail, is the effect of the WDH. All on-line calculators and all the calculations we use to assess GVW are based on WCH not WDH. The only way you can get the GVW of your TV, with a WDH connected, is by measuring it with a CAT scale. I have read that as much as 25% of Tongue weight payload can be redistributed back to the TT axles. This has a significant effect on not only the GVW of the TV but also the GAW of the TT. We are also told that the 1/2 tons are to light and braking will be an issue...this is totally wrong, the TT is equipped with brakes that are rated at more than it's GVWR and so are the trucks brakes...this is only a problem when pulling a trailer without brakes...in Ontario Canada the law says your can pull a 3000 lb trailer without brakes, is it safe...it is legal! We worry about making sure that the front axle weight or fender clearance is the same before and after the trailer is loaded to maximize braking and control, yet our Governments let you tow up to 5000 lbs without a WDH, is it safe...it's legal! Where's our Governments that should be making the RV industry ensure that the trailer/TV rigs and combos are safe, there are no standards, nothing is very clear and you need to have an Engineering Degree to try and figure this all out. What I love about this forum is that it gives me great insight into what I may encounter in the future and it allows me to prepare and learn from others experience. This is only one forum and from ready many of the posts on this forum, and others, the issue of understanding Tow Vehicle sizing seems to be a very a very expensive & common mistake that has been and continues to be made. Again I don't think that we should be breaking any of the limits, however, there should be some standards out there to protect the buyers rather than the results of a loss of property and lives. Anyway just needed to vent...can't stand it when someone else winds up with there hopes & dreams extinguished because of a sales job!


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wazzurver,

Wow, the CAT scale gross weight for your TV was 6,500lbs and your GVWR is 6,800lbs ......., leaving only 300lbs for the combined weights of the TT tongue and WDH??

Your published tow rating of 8,400lbs - (6,500lbs CAT scale - 5,393lb curb weight) = 7,293lbs actual tow rating..., which could accomadate the Jayco Whitehawk 28DSBH & Jayflight Swift 267BHS..., but the tongue weight remains an issue.

Even with a CAT scale error of plus/minus 40 lbs, I'm surprised that your 1/2 ton left you with only 300lbs. Based on your CAT results the Jayco Whitehawk 28DSBH & Jayflight Swift 267BHS are ruled out..., even using the manufactures minimum recommended loaded tongue weight of 10% (of loaded TT weight).

It appears that when looking for a hard sided trailer the Jayco Jay Flight Swift SLX models may be a better match based on your particular TV's loaded conditions.

Bob
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle View Post
The manufactures specified curb weight of the TV "includes" the weight of a full tank of fuel, in this case the curb weight is 5,393lbs. The CAT scale gross weight of 6,500lbs represents only the added passenger weight and the weight of the TV's options ...., totaling 1,107lbs. The 1,107lbs is a little higher then the norm when one considers that it doesn't include any cargo in the TV.

Bob
If curb weight is supposed to included full fuel and 150# passenger...the rest of the family is only 300# or so. Where is the almost 800# extra coming from?
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:30 PM   #15
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wazzurver,

That's what makes your weight data interesting to me, because I doubt that you have 800lbs in TV options above the curb weight.

Did you use a CAT scale, or another commercial scale?

Bob
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:35 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Raugustin View Post
snip....... Wazzurver needs to hypothetically move all content, if any, excluding the passengers from his TV and move that payload to the trailer,...... snip
Ron,

The thing is that if I have gathered the OP's information correctly his scaled weight of 6,500lbs doesn't include any cargo....., so I agree, it would be great if there was some TV cargo weight to move back to the TT.

Bob
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:39 PM   #17
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Hi Bob,
I wonder where he's getting his curb weight from? Ram has several pages of base weights for different models. Your suppose to pick your model then add the weight of any options that are listed on the Vehicle Specification.
Ron

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Ron,

The thing is that if I have gathered the OP's information correctly his scaled weight of 6,500lbs doesn't include any cargo....., so I agree, it would be great if there was some TV cargo weight to move back to the TT.

Bob
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:52 PM   #18
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CAT Scales. ticket read as follows:

Steer Axle 3500#
Drive Axle 3060#
Gross Weight 6560#

No Cargo, just full tank (32 gallon) and 2 adults 2 children
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:10 PM   #19
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Hi wazzurver,
What model 1500 do you have and did you add any options? There is a sticker inside your door that tells you tire size and loading, it also tells you what the maximum passenger and payload is. If you subtract that number from your 6800 GVW you should have your curb weight. If you added anything or if the dealer installed anything afterword ie running boards, liner etc. all those weights must also be subtracted from the 6800 lbs.

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Originally Posted by wazzurver View Post
CAT Scales. ticket read as follows:

Steer Axle 3500#
Drive Axle 3060#
Gross Weight 6560#

No Cargo, just full tank (32 gallon) and 2 adults 2 children
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:02 PM   #20
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I am completely embarrassed to post this and please forgive me...guess what I have in the bed of my truck under my truxedo cover (out of mind out of sight)? Five bags of tube sand for winter driving! Yes, the guy that can't figure out why his truck weighed in so heavy is admitting he had sand in the back. Truly sorry and thanks for all the answers...I will try a re-weigh soon and see where I am.
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