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Old 12-28-2012, 10:59 AM   #1
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Tow milage

We just traded a 99 F250 with the V10, for a 05 F350 with the 6.0 diesel, have had the truck for 4 weeks and beginning to think we were sold a bill of goods that our mileage would be much better and towing would be better and that we would never look back at towing with a gas motor. Well at this point i couldn't be more disappointed. mileage around town is really no different and though I only towed our Jayco to the dealer and back with is about 30 miles both ways I'm not impressed. I was wondering if anyone out there is towing the same trailer and what i can expect. we tow a 2010 Jayflight G2 31BHDS.Thanks for any input. John.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:52 AM   #2
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My buddy has an 03 with the 6.0 and his mileage has been miserably dissappointing, along with a few major repairs and many headaches. He said it got better mileage before they did all the software upgrades. He does not tow an RV, but even with just towing a utility trailer for our Scout Troop the mileage was not good, I have personally witnessed that.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:32 PM   #3
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I never towed with my 2003 Tundra, but with the V8 engine, the fuel mileage was nothing to write home about (12 mpg in city driving, 14-15 mpg in highway driving). OTH, the '05 Ram 3500 diesel I currently have equals the Tundra's city fuel mileage and on the highway is better by about 30%. Impressive to me when you consider the Ram weighs over 7000 lbs to the Tundra's 4400 lbs. and the Ram has a 4.10 rear axle. Towing? I was pulling an over 12000 lb. fifth wheel with it before buying our Jayco Whitehawk. The towing fuel mileage ranged from 9.5 mpg (hilly terrain and windy) to as high as 13.5 mpg on flat terrain with light winds at 60 mph. The average highway towing mileage I saw was around 11.5 mpg. It is improved towing the White Hawk (way less mass), but I haven't traveled enough yet to know how much better.

While improved fuel mileage (overall it is not a huge improvement IMHO) may be a reason to buy a diesel, the higher low end torque of the diesel is probably the big reason many folks buy a diesel if they tow a heavy trailer or tow a lot. With the price spread between No. 2diesel and 87 octane gasoline what it is, a diesel owner sure isn't seeing any particular benefit at the pump. Maintenance might be a bit of a saving, since the diesel can go longer between oil changes (real far if you pay for oil analysis and use a good quality motor oil), but that "advantage" is wiped out by the fact the typical diesel engine requires 3 gals. or more of oil for an oil change. About the only maintenance advantage I've experienced to date; no tuneups. The first time a 5.9 Cummins should see a wrench is 100-150,000 miles to adjust the valve lash. And of course, when things on a diesel engine do go wrong, the repairs and parts costs can take your breath away.

All that said, I really don't need the beast I'm driving now and would probably unload it but for one reason..........it's paid for!
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:52 PM   #4
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wellcraft,

I'm sorry to say, you're not as disappointed now, as you will be when the engine problems start cropping up. Problems are EGR valve, EGR cooler, Head bolts, Head gaskets, Turbo charger fins, High pressure oil pump, High pressure fuel pump, Injectors, Cam positioning sensor, to name a few. FORD dumped Navistar as their diesel engine provider for the F series trucks. Navistar breached their contract through unreliable engine component design. That said, the 6.0L can be made Bullet-Proof(but, not at a lack of investing a great deal of money)
Our company owns more than 250(two hundred & fifthy) F series trucks. The majority are equipped with 6.0L Navistar engines. We had so many problems with them, they are now going to V 10 Gas engines. Fuel mileage is about the same, but the reliability of the engine is something to celebrate.

Good luck,
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:10 PM   #5
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My sons father in law had a 04 ford with the 6.0 and went through 4 Turbos and still had a lack of power and bad milage He wanted his old 7.3 back in the worst way. I have a 04 Dodge CTD and get around town 10 to 12 out on the HWY I get 18 to 20 the best I ever did was 22 but with that said I only have 45,000 miles on the truck. but when pulling trailer 25RKS I get 10 to 14. Oh I forgot I have 373's gears in rear axle
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:15 PM   #6
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As you are hearing there is lots of known issues with the Ford 6.0/6.4 PSD. These mainly revolve about elements with the emission products the Gov't mandated and head studs. That said there are lots of aftermarket options to "bullet proof" that motor and tuning to improve just about everything. Caution when tuning, use reputable tunes and tuners...there can be a lot of unintended consequences.

Did the previous owner tune the truck before you got it?
If you live in a no diesel smog state, I strongly recommend you do a EGR/DPF Delete...that will improve things considerably.

As for Diesel vs gas fuel improvement. My comparison is a Stock Chevy 1500 Gasser to Stock Chevy 2500 Diesel...2004 5.3L 3:73 Average 9MPG towing vs 2007.5 LMM Duramax 3:73 12 MPG towing. So yeah there is a fuel economy improvement (~30%) but that isn't what I went to diesel for. I wanted the improved torque and HP that the diesel provides for mountain towing...plus it gives me more options when we upgrade trailers.

Get on the PSD forums...they can provide a lot more information.

By the way, you didn't say what MPG you are getting now. Also, what did you expect? Maybe it is a matter of expectations.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:56 PM   #7
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We started towing with a 2003 Toyota Tundra V8. Not towing we would get 10 to 12mpg around town and 15 mpg max on the highway. When towing with the Tundra we would average 7 to 8mpg. We traded for a 2005 Dodge 2500 (single cab, longbox) with a 5.9 Diesel. Not towing we averaged 15 to 16 mpg around town and 20 to 21mpg on the highway. When towing with the Dodge we averaged 12mpg. There was no comparison between the Toyota and the Dodge pertaining to towing ability/power. We recently traded for a 2012 Dodge 3500 crew cab / longbed. We also have a new 5th wheel. I calculate that we are towing about 14,000 lbs fully loaded. On a recent trip to FL from centeral NY we averaged 11MPG. I expect the mpg to improve as the engine breaks in. Most notable is the increase inpower, I can set the cruise and the truck is not hunting gears regardless of the hills. I am not sure that I am saving money with the large price diff between 87 oct and #2 fueland when you consider the price increase for the diesel engine I know I am not, but I am a lot more comfortable and I feel safer towing a heavy load.
Just my experience & I know others feel differently.
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipper View Post
wellcraft,

I'm sorry to say, you're not as disappointed now, as you will be when the engine problems start cropping up. Problems are EGR valve, EGR cooler, Head bolts, Head gaskets, Turbo charger fins, High pressure oil pump, High pressure fuel pump, Injectors, Cam positioning sensor, to name a few. FORD dumped Navistar as their diesel engine provider for the F series trucks. Navistar breached their contract through unreliable engine component design. That said, the 6.0L can be made Bullet-Proof(but, not at a lack of investing a great deal of money)
Our company owns more than 250(two hundred & fifthy) F series trucks. The majority are equipped with 6.0L Navistar engines. We had so many problems with them, they are now going to V 10 Gas engines. Fuel mileage is about the same, but the reliability of the engine is something to celebrate.

Good luck,
Yep I have't heard the 1st good word about a Ford 6.0 PSD , everything I've been told is to run as fast and as far away as you can from them. Most diehard Ford fans will tell you they are absolute junk.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:45 PM   #9
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Well thanks for that vote of confidence before I bought this I did some homework as far as that known problems and knew what i was getting into with that. My mechanic that does my state inspections has an 06 6.0 and loves it not 1 problem with 55000 on it. I heard the bad stories as well as some good ones. after talking to the dealer,I was told that the 6.0 up until 04 had it share of problems than from 05 on they clean them up a little. I've been told a good set of gauges to mont. EOT and ECT are a must to catch any problems before they become big problems. I bought the truck with 32000 on it and did get a 5 year 60000 mile warranty
to go with it. I understand that buying a truck for the mileage is foolish but I was hoping for better than 7.5 to 8 mpg when towing. Thanks for the input though. John
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:05 PM   #10
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7.5 to 8 mpg?

My previous service truck, 2005 F-450, 6.0L Navistar with all tools and equipment weighed 14,200 Lbs. It averages 12.5 mpg.
My new 2012 F-450, 6.7L (Ford designed and built diesel engine) scales out at 14,700 Lbs. and averages 14.2 mpg.

Our local division of 4 technicians have 5 diesel truck.
We keep a spare truck, because we have no idea when one will be in the shop for repairs.
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