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Old 02-11-2016, 04:06 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by RACarvalho View Post
Thanks need-a-vacation !
Do you have the link for the studies that changed the mindset on this?

Tks,
I personally wouldn't worry too much about when the prevailing thinking changed. Just focus on what the current best practice is. Look at it this way, if the steering feels "light" after the trailer is hooked up, then you aren't set up right. The ability to control the truck is a safety issue and makes or breaks your comfort level on a trip. A bit of rear squat has less to do with safety and more about ascetics, not something I am too concerned about. When mine is all hooked up, as said by others, the entire rig is pretty level.
And that's with 1.5 inches of rear squat on my truck.

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Originally Posted by TWP723 View Post
A little squat is fine. More than say...2"...you need to readjust.
X2! I appreciate that you mentioned this.
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Old 02-11-2016, 04:36 PM   #12
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snip......Ford for example used to be to return 50% of the lost weight to the front axle. It is now suggested to only return 25% of the lost weight for the new trucks (since '15 I think it is) from what I have read (I don't own a Ford).........snip
Unless Ford has changed their owners manual language in respect to the use of a WDH, I thought when Ford was referencing the "50% or 25%" they were referring to "front-end-rise", not weight.

I mention this because returning 50% or 25% lost weight isn't the same as returning (or eliminating) 50% or 25% front-end-rise. If Ford is referencing "weight", then a CAT scale visit required.

If someone could confirm Ford's owner manual language on the subject, it would be of interest.

Bob
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Old 02-11-2016, 05:19 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by RACarvalho View Post
Thanks need-a-vacation !
Do you have the link for the studies that changed the mindset on this?

Tks,
YW!

As for the studies, I don't have any links. If I recall right, one of the things that was mentioned was by having more weight on the front axle than when unhooked (no trailer) that it would cause oversteer which could cause a very serious situation when towing. By having equal weight, or less on the front axle when all hooked up, ready to roll down the road it will be easier to control the rig in an emergency situation by having a neutral or understeer set up... As I mentioned, if I recall correctly! Lol I had read about this somewhere on RV.Net while surfing numerous threads.

As mentioned, up to about 2" of squat is fine. More than that you either need to re-adjust the wd bars via the hitch head angle, or you don't have enough truck for that particular trailer.

I don't recall seeing how to weigh the rig combo at a CAT Scale posted here (maybe missed it!). You will want to weight a total of three times. You will want to be loaded, ready for a trip with all passenger (that will normally be going) in the tv.

A CAT Scale has three scale pads. Pull the tv up far enough that the steer (front) axle is only on pad 1, drive (rear) axle is only on pad 2, and the tt axles are only on pad 3.

1: Truck and trailer, with wd bars latched up, ready to roll down the road.

2: Truck and trailer, with wd bars unlatched. Set the wd bars in the bed of the truck.

3: Truck only. Leave the hitch in, and wd bars in the bed.

With these three weights, you will know if the hitch is adjusted properly. If your within all the specs of your tv (don't forget the truck receiver hitch rating!), and what your total trailer weight is and the loaded tongue weight.

1-3= total trailer weight

3- (fa+ra of 2)= loaded tongue weight

Depending on what your tv owners manual states for a wdh set up, the #1 faw should be somewhere between #2 faw and the #3 faw. Example- #1 faw= 3200, #2 faw= 2900, #3 faw= 3500. This example the wdh has returned 50% of the lost weight (600lbs lost weight when trailer is hooked up, but without the wd bars latched up).

Good luck!
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Old 02-11-2016, 05:29 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle View Post
Unless Ford has changed their owners manual language in respect to the use of a WDH, I thought when Ford was referencing the "50% or 25%" they were referring to "front-end-rise", not weight.

I mention this because returning 50% or 25% lost weight isn't the same as returning (or eliminating) 50% or 25% front-end-rise. If Ford is referencing "weight", then a CAT scale visit required.

If someone could confirm Ford's owner manual language on the subject, it would be of interest.

Bob
Bob,

Interesting question!!! As I mentioned, I don't own a Ford, while I may have mis-understood what Ford owners have posted, I have understood it to be weight based. And measuring the front fender to find the difference has been a way to get one in the "ball park" of setting up the wdh properly.

Makes me wonder how it is stated in my owners manual for our '13 Chevy!!! Lol Time to go look!!!

Looking up both my Silverado and a F150 owners manual, it does state to measure the front fender height.... Interesting... Lol Makes me wonder if the manufactures state to measure the fender height because they know not many people would actually take the rig to a CAT Scale and pay to get the 3 weights???

I do know that when I have set up the wdh based on measurements, I have been very close, if not right on weightwise (once I got to the CAT Scale) in comparison to setting up based on measurement. So maybe they go "hand in hand"???
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Old 02-11-2016, 07:58 PM   #15
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need-a-vacation,

Quote:
Originally Posted by need-a-vacation View Post
snip......As I mentioned, I don't own a Ford, while I may have mis-understood what Ford owners have posted, I have understood it to be weight based. And measuring the front fender to find the difference has been a way to get one in the "ball park" of setting up the wdh properly.........
I agree, fender measuring gets one in the "ball park" of restoring front suspension integrity, and IMO for the most part works out well when the WDH is sized correctly.

I don't own a Ford either...., but did find a Ford 2011 F-150 owners manual for reference, it states...; "5. Install and adjust the tension in the weight distributing bars so that the height of the front fender is approximately halfway between H1 and H2." The "halfway" I assume can be translated into "50%" height restored.

Note: H1= Front fender TT unhitched, H2 = Front fender TT hitched/bars engaged.

Source: Page 269 of....... http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Fo.../11f12og3e.pdf

With my GM truck (as yours) it does reference "heights". A number of years ago I put some time in at a CAT scale and found that there was a difference between using the most common "height" measurement process compared to my CAT results........., the CAT results showed that I was still shy returning about 200lbs (I did account for driver weight when using the measuring process). But, I think ones suspension characteristics come into play......., fender heights can fluctuate just by going around the block.

Putting things into perspective, I have a 1,300lb loaded tongue weight.

Thanks for the follow-up....

Bob
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:07 PM   #16
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JOF TV/TT CAT Scale how-to: https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...v-tt-3871.html

Bob
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:59 PM   #17
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WDH setup all boils down to do it the proper way. You can use the old system (measuring the fender heights) or you can do it by weight calculations.
When weight condition change WDH needs adjusting it is as simple as that.
Dealers usually set the WDH up according to the conditions you leave the dealership.


To recap it short:
Tow vehicle and TT should travel level (not TV nose up and ass down - not TT nose up or down - as some of the don't give a **** do) Weight has to be distributed equally in the TT. Tongue weight between 10 and 15% (average is about 13%) The WDH will distribute TW to the front and some back to the Axle('s) of the TT


An important tool is a Tongue Weight Scale or use your bathroom scale with the 1 ft. to 3 or 4 ft. method. At the commercial scale get all the other weights.


And please; we can argue back and forth..............but all weight distribution figures can be mathematical figured out. Happy WDH adjusting and safe travelling. adjusting
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Old 02-11-2016, 10:04 PM   #18
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The reason I asked for the study is that I have the impression that a SUV set up should be different than a truck and I like to know the theory behind the things.
I find interesting CamAm reports that they were able to improve a lot of SUVs handling just readjusting the weight distribution (making the drop in the front equal the rear), which to me makes some sense for the majority of people tow with trucks so the people that make these initial adjustments at the dealer have the practice/knowledge of what a truck needs but a truck's rear suspension is really different from a SUV's one (should the rule be the same?).
A 1.5in drop on rear suspension or leaving the front suspension above the original high should be ok on a truck but could be a disaster for a SUV with independent suspension (???).... Any thoughts about this?
In my case I have a SUV, therefore my question.
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Old 02-12-2016, 01:00 AM   #19
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snip......... And please; we can argue back and forth..............but all weight distribution figures can be mathematical figured out. Happy WDH adjusting and safe travelling. adjusting
Hmm, I thought the thread had a fairly open discussion going on, didn't pick up on any arguing.

Bob
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Old 02-12-2016, 07:45 AM   #20
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I set mine up according to the hitch instructions, by measuring fender heights. I returned the front fender to its original unloaded height. I didn't like the way the trailer towed because my steering felt too light. I moved the bars up one hole on two different occasions, mid trip, until it drove right.
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