E450 Steering Sway Pulling A Toad vs. No Toad

[alazear]

Originally Posted by Randy

Would you like me to measre the width of my attachment to the baseplate to compare to yours.

I’d be curious about this width for sure. Mine is just the standard width of the outside of the Jeep frame members, which is 35”.

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by alazear

I‘ll be sure to let you know via this thread what I find after installing it. It’s currently backordered, but I was told it should be ready to ship in a week or two. Looks like an install effort similar to the rear sway bar. The upgraded sway bar is supposed to be compatible as well.

My wife, having me as her indentured servant, wants me to be able to drive as far as I can on our trips in a single go. She took the wheel for about an hour on some straight highway driving during this last one and was surprised at the continual micro corrections needed to drive down the road. A good tactic to get her agreement on suspension upgrades. 😃 She’s all in now.

I also noticed corrosion right away too from beach camping. We had a different rig at the time and I made sure to get after it right away too, as well as spray everything down. The tub of water is a great idea. Didn’t think of that. Overall our conclusion was it wasn’t worth the hassle, as cool as it was to be steps from the water.

I don't disagree, it's a bit of a hassle. The nicest part about it in my opinion was how quiet the beach got early in the morning and late in the evening. All the day-trippers leave and you get the beach to yourself again. But the RVers that were murdered and thrown in a shallow grave in the dunes near Corpus Christi last year not far from where we camp doesn't help make the case. So we haven't done it in a while.

LOL!! Your wife sounds like mine. Indentured servitude is a heck of a life, isn't it? We were camping with another couple last weekend, and the wife offered to dump the black tank!! Can you believe it!! I could only point and mumble I was so speechless!! "I don't do the poop!!" she says!!

Anyway, her opinion on the suspension and handling is that it's my imagination; the rig was fine from the factory. Why and how would they sell a rig that didn't drive perfect? I've explained to her dozens of times the economics of manufacturing, and why sometimes things aren't right and need to be improved. Her opinion stands even after a few hours behind the wheel; "it's never going to drive like a Suburban" she says. She doesn't even notice improvements because that few hours is all she drives when we're traveling.

Our last major trip I spent 14 hrs in the seat. I told her in no uncertain terms that the improvements I've made to the rig are the ONLY reason I was able to do that. As it came from the factory, I'd be lucky if 7 hrs of seat time didn't kill me! Then she fires back with "well, it's all good then? We don't need to do anything more, right?"

SMH, No honey, I can make it even better. So maybe after those 14 hr days, I only need one good night's sleep to recover instead of an entire day... I'm looking at rear track bar and 5-star tune ... then MAYBE I'll be done ... for now...

I say most in jest. I can't complain too much, there's usually a fresh, dry and clean t-shirt along with a fresh cup of coffee and a full cup of iced water in the cup holders waiting for me when I mount the cockpit... We each have our jobs; I'm in charge of mechanical readiness, and utilities and waste management, and she's in charge of the inside of the rig, the boy, and the dog.

[alazear]

[QUOTE=Camper_bob;886260]IBut the RVers that were murdered and thrown in a shallow grave in the dunes near Corpus Christi last year not far from where we camp doesn't help make the case.

Didn’t here about this. We have similar reservations about going down to Baja for kiting in winter months. Just not worth being dead, even though we want to go.
Funny you mention a 5 Star tune. Watched a video review on this last night by 2 guys from CO. that do really good car reviews. It was done on a class A, but same running gear as ours. Good review. .

[Camper_bob]

[QUOTE=alazear;886266]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

IBut the RVers that were murdered and thrown in a shallow grave in the dunes near Corpus Christi last year not far from where we camp doesn't help make the case.

Wouldn't by any chance be TFL Truck, would it?

I love those guys.

Those RVers were a really sad case. There was a thread on here about it where people were posting updates. They were full-timers traveling around the country, and had visited some friends in the area. They were slated to spend a couple weeks on the TX coast before heading out to FL to sell Christmas trees (to earn a little extra scratch to support their F/T RV lifestyle). They spent 2 weeks in an RV park near the Bob Hall Pier, but that was all they were allowed to stay, so they decided to spend the rest of their time boondocking on the beach nearby (near "The Bowl" if you're familiar with that little piece of TX coast). Another couple (allegedly) murdered them, and were photographed crossing the border into Mexico in the deceased couple's rig. They were apprehended in Mexico and extradited to the US a short time later. They admitted being in possession of the stolen truck and trailer (kind of hard to deny since they were in it when they were apprehended), but denied any involvement in their death. They were charged with something like aggravated theft of a vehicle, bond set REALLY high, and were in jail awaiting results of the investigation and trial on the filed charges last I saw. At last update I found, the charges did not include murder.

My wife is a member of a closed FB group for RVers in the San Antonio area and heard about it from one of the couples' friends on there. A few days after they were reported missing, a Sherrif's deputy was combing the area where their cell phone last "pinged" and discovered the bodies buried in the dunes.

I followed the story VERY closely for a long time, but there haven't been any updates in quite a long time. The authorities went silent on it not long after the couple was arrested so as not to "taint the investigation".

Needless to say, DW didn't have much interest boondocking on the beach much after that...

[alazear]

[QUOTE=Camper_bob;886282]

Originally Posted by alazear

Wouldn't by any chance be TFL Truck, would it?

I love those guys.

You guessed it. I found it really good, like all their other reviews. Should give you an honest assessment of what to expect from that upgrade if you decide on it. I don't wish for more power, just calmer steering when towing. Gas mileage however might be reason alone to pull the trigger on that one.

Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9N5M2WhIiI

Very sad case on the RV'ers. Never heard about it out my way. We've stayed at Bob Hall Campground too. I saw a recent picture of the 50's style picnic benches w/attached 2x4 roofs they have at the sites floating in about 5' of sea water from one of the recent storms. Not sure if there was other damage done, but I recognized that campground right away from the photo because of the unique picnic benches they have. I'm not familiar with "the bowl" though. Sounds like the murder was a one off and not a wave of crime, but it still doesn't make one feel any better about it. Hopefully the police will find the evidence they need to solve it.

[Camper_bob]

For the 5-Star tune, I'm looking forward to the more appropriate shifting behavior out of the transmission. Especially on inclines.

If I get better fuel economy, that's cool, but I don't really care much about that. A couple extra gallons saved or burned on a trip isn't going to make or break anything for me.

I also agree that getting the rig to go straight down the road without wrestling with the wheel is priority. Thankfully after the front end mods, mine does pretty well. So now it's a toss-up as to which I do next; rear track bar or tune?

That incident on the coast really was a bit of a "one off". It's generally a safe place to go. And I know from experience that the police patrol the beach pretty frequently further up toward Port A, and there are typically at least a few other RVs out there at any given time, pretty much year 'round. Boondocking on the beach is nice when we can make it work, but we don't have any issue making it easy on ourselves and staying in one of the CGs down there.

[alazear]

We seem to be happy staying at Isla Blanca on the very south end of SPI for now. I does what we need. Lots of room when we've been there. Removed from the traffic and hubbub of central SPI. I can kite right off the beach there for waves or drive to the North Flats or Convention Center for flat water riding on the bay side. The wind blows nearly daily there, so my body gives out way before the wind does. Lots of fun areas to explore in that whole neck of the woods on non kite days.

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by alazear

We seem to be happy staying at Isla Blanca on the very south end of SPI for now. I does what we need. Lots of room when we've been there. Removed from the traffic and hubbub of central SPI. I can kite right off the beach there for waves or drive to the North Flats or Convention Center for flat water riding on the bay side. The wind blows nearly daily there, so my body gives out way before the wind does. Lots of fun areas to explore in that whole neck of the woods on non kite days.

We might have to check that out. It's quite a bit more of a "hike" for us though, so I doubt it's something we would do all that often. Nice thing about Port A is it's not that far from home. Matagorda isn't that much further either...

[jim7489]

I tow a 2018 Jeep GC Summit behind my Entegra Odyssey 24B (Jayco) and really didn't like it until I added a Super Steer Trak bar to the rear. It really made an improvement.
Not 100 % better but close.
Jim

[alazear]

Originally Posted by jim7489

I tow a 2018 Jeep GC Summit behind my Entegra Odyssey 24B (Jayco) and really didn't like it until I added a Super Steer Trak bar to the rear. It really made an improvement.
Not 100 % better but close.
Jim

Really encouraging. Mine is now apparently on the way. Curious to see when it gets here.

[alazear]

Received the Super Steer Rear Track Bar via UPS a couple days ago. It arrived in good condition, boxed well and shipped quickly. Just installed it this morning. Instructions were good and clear. They said it'd take 1.5 hours to install. I probably spent 3 hours, mainly due to crawling around on the ground and working in a limited space rather than having it up on a lift with easier access. I can see 1.5 hours for the install if you're on a lift with a full set of tools, otherwise my time might be more realistic. I also went slow making sure to do each step well and crank bolts down tightly. It's a tougher install [by a little bit] than the rear sway bar was, but similar grunting around under the vehicle trying not to wear out your elbows moving place to place on the concrete.

Just did a test drive after the install. I drove with just the rig, no toad, over back country rough roads, regular highway and freeway speeds to 70 mph. The rig is very solid. I didn't notice a huge change in the rear or steering, but a noticeable one. It was pretty solid before this upgrade without a toad in tow. Now, it is better. I'm very curious to hook up the Jeep as a toad and do the same test drive and see how much the surfing in the steering has been affected. That'll be the real test and why I decided to buy this upgrade at all. I'll keep you posted when I test this.

[Florida Ranger]

Keep in mind your toad is not much shorter than your motorhome. That being said if you were pulling a boat of the same size as your toad you would experience the same thing. Short motorhomes normally have some type of problem when towing objects close to thier same length..

[SUP]

Could it be the front alignment in the jeep?

[Randy]

Yours is well over the Blue Ox (22") or the roadmaster (25") so that is a dead end.

[Micikas]

Do you have a rear diagonal rod also called panhard rod or drag link. Connects the chassis diagonally to the differential to stop what is called tail wag.

[alazear]

Did the same test drive again just now as I did yesterday. This time I hooked up my toad in tow. [2019 Jeep JLU 4-door, all stock suspension, tires + height on the Jeep]. Huge difference in driving performance behind the wheel of the Redhawk. The Super Steer Rear Track Bar was indeed the magic bullet to calm the rear end down of my rig. This resulted in no more "surfing" of the steering, no more micro corrections needed in steering at any speed.

It drives like you are not pulling a toad at all. I tested this on backcountry roads, highways and freeway speeds to 75 mph. Calm everywhere. Out of the all the upgrades I've done, it's been clearly the best for towing with my sized rig no question about it. For bigger rigs? I can't speak to that. They may not get yanked around as much towing a toad with a longer wheel base and more mass to start out with.

Disclaimer: I did not test these upgrades one at a time, taking each one off before adding the next to test each individually. Thus, my results are far from scientific on many levels. Having said that, this is my honest perception. I do not feel the need to "justify what I bought" with a positive or negative review, as I really don't care about that kind of justification of spending money. Realistically, I was curious to be a test case and see if I could get this thing to drive nice towing my toad.

Thus, in order of bang for your buck making the most difference for towing a toad with my sized rig [Jayco Redhawk 24B], I'd order them from my top pick on down. For other sized rigs I might order things the same or differently, but have no way of knowing this now:

1. Tighten up Helwig Helper Springs to 2-3" spacing [it's free - why not?, so it got #1 spot for that reason only, not that it was a massive change.]

2. Super Steer Rear Trac Bar [no question, for towing a toad it made the biggest difference in calming the rig down, thus making steering nice up front]

3. Road Master Reflex Steering Stabilizer [I like how it tightened up the steering overall, I wish it was even stiffer than it is really]

4. Upgraded Front and Rear Sway Bars [Helwig or Roadmaster] I did both front and rear at once so have no way of separating them out, front to rear. Definitely reduced pitch and roll of the big box driving down the road and in cornering, cross winds, etc. Also, they added overall quiet with less movement when camping. My rig does not come with corner stabilizer jacks that might otherwise do that same job when camping. I know many other rigs do though.

[alazear]

Originally Posted by SUP

Could it be the front alignment in the jeep?

Jeep alignment is fine as far as I know.

[alazear]

Originally Posted by Micikas

Do you have a rear diagonal rod also called panhard rod or drag link. Connects the chassis diagonally to the differential to stop what is called tail wag.

Not sure what this is or how it might differ from a Rear Trac Bar. They sound similar?

[Micikas]

trac Bar is the same and made great improvement on my 26" class a. Now I have moved to a 31' 10" Jayco Alante and I had all the suspension work done. Planning on keeping this one for a while. Super Steer Steering Stablizer, upgrade front sway bar from 1-1/4" to 1-5/8" replaced buskings in rear sway bar (bar in front of differential) with poly bushings. Added another 1-5/8" sway bar behind differential. Replaced all shocks with Koni shocks with a quad setup in the rear. Also the trac bar was added that was to have been installed at the factory but was missing. Lastly Sumo Springs on all four corners. Now it handles and rides almost like my car. FYI the JRide that Jayco put on there RV's is a upgrade to the shocks and they are painted yellow so you may think the are Bilstein's. At a suspension seminar rep. from Bilstein said yes we made them but to Fords or Jaycos specs, that is not what Bilstein would have put on the RV. Also they told us that Bilstein is a performance shock so it will ride a little firmer than a Koni.

[Dgibbster]

Just ordered my Helwig front sway bar. While under there i started to look at the rear helwig helper springs as i remember reading a post where they are not adjusted correctly or in my case at all. The u-bolts were loose and almost 5 inch gap so helper springs were doing nothing. A bear to break free the lock nuts and got one u-bolt cranked down to recommended max adjustment of 2” clearance between cup for u-bolt and top of factory spring pack. Sure this will make a huge difference while towing and everyone needs to check and adjust theirs between 2-3” depending pretty much if you tow or carry heavy load.