I give up on the Norcold.......

[James AO]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

Interesting as they talked me into the 120v version....the wiring of changing the fridge plug over to the inverter was extremely easy in my case of the RB, the converter and inverter panel were right next to each other and swapping the line to the inverter took about 10 minutes. I did think of the inverter going out but I do carry an old 1000 watt pure sine that I have and in a pinch I could have it up and running again temporarily pretty quick.

Good points. Still undecided. Did you add a new breaker to the inverter circuit breaker panel, or add the frig to one of the three existing breakers? With nothing else on, how many amps are being pulled from your battery bank when the frig compressor runs? Please remind me, what do you have for batteries? Also, solar? How did the JC kit installation go? Straight forward, any issues on their side? Thanks

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by James AO

Good points. Still undecided. Did you add a new breaker to the inverter circuit breaker panel, or add the frig to one of the three existing breakers? With nothing else on, how many amps are being pulled from your battery bank when the frig compressor runs? Please remind me, what do you have for batteries? Also, solar? How did the JC kit installation go? Straight forward, any issues on their side? Thanks

I pulled a 15 amp single breaker out of the inverter panel and put in a double 15amp. I have 4 - 6 volt Trojan 105’s and a Renogy 400 watt setup with MPPT charger. Installation was pretty simple, the worst part was lifting out of the cabinet to the floor, going back in, I had a dolly with a milk crate on it and that made it much easier putting back in. The key to making it easier is dry fitting the new unit, I propped the freezer end up on a stand so I could lay the unit in the back, then slide under the fridge and using an awl, I lined up the bolt holes in the freezer and fridge section and started several of them in to hold the unit in position. Then I went and ran in several of the screws that hold the compressor frame on the back, then pulled all the screws out, removed the unit and put the thermomastic caulk on the plates, sprayed the sealing foam in the cat box and layed the new unit in and ran several oF the frame screws in to hold it in place, stood up the fridge and then bolted it up inside the fridge box. This extra step of dry fitting is worth the time, if you watch the videos, you’ll see what I mean. It takes longer to explain that do it

With all the other inverter breakers turned off to the micro and tv’s and everything else off except for a few small draws like some usb ports the Victron battery monitor shows 9.9 amps DC and the Inverter specs shows it draws 1.5 amps DC just being turned on so the fridge would be drawing about 8.4 amps DC and that’s the compressor and cooling fan, ice maker is turned off.....so right around 1 amp AC, much lower than a residential fridge. If I find it an issue, I have played around with adding 2 more 6 volts to the bank. This would be pretty easy with the S2 chassis as I could move the chassis batteries to the location that is empty under the cab like on the M2 chassis, I already have a battery box drawn up for the CNC plasma this would let me add 2 more 6 volts to the existing tray. I can also add a couple more solar panels if needed.

[2018rvs2]

Hi Rusty
I had the same problem with my 2019 RB. I insulate the side walls and roof of the frig and rebaffled to nocold specs and put a roof vent in. Temp is now 34 in frig and 3 degrees in the freezer on setting 4. Seem Jayco only sells RV's in kit form and lets the customer finish the assembly. My water tank was sitting on the fuel filler pipe, which I remove the tank and relocated the fittings so I could replumb the tank and relocate it.

[Gunfighter]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

I hope they caught it after a few builds, I would be curious if others are the same or not. If anybody reads this thread that has a 2018.5 RB I would love to see a pic of their lower vent cutout for comparison!

Rusty as you know I have a 37K with side top vent (not roof) and have futzed with mine also. Below is a view of my bottom vent. For everyone else, like the RB the K has two bathrooms, and the refer is NOT in a slide, It has a side top vent. I have one computer fan in top vent. I have wired in a switch and thermostat you can see in the photo. Comes on at 90 inside the box. I started out with two fans wired in for continuous run when refer on but burned these out in a few months.
I can't tell is mine offset like yours?

[SloPoke]

BTW seneca owners... I hope you know that the Norcold fridge already has two 12v fans on the back of the fridge, about halfway up that blows upwards towards the cooling fins at the top of the cooling unit. See page 16.


https://norcold.com/wp-content/uploa...0_20200513.pdf

[Gunfighter]

Roger that Slopoke. The one fan I mounted is in the middle of the top fins and pulls air up and out.

[Crossingover]

Does this conversion use the existing 'evaporators' and you install a new condenser?

[thecsfour]

Originally Posted by Gunfighter

Rusty as you know I have a 37K with side top vent (not roof) and have futzed with mine also. Below is a view of my bottom vent. For everyone else, like the RB the K has two bathrooms, and the refer is NOT in a slide, It has a side top vent. I have one computer fan in top vent. I have wired in a switch and thermostat you can see in the photo. Comes on at 90 inside the box. I started out with two fans wired in for continuous run when refer on but burned these out in a few months.
I can't tell is mine offset like yours?

Gunfighter.... I have the exact same model and the exact same problem. I did the same thing as you with the computer fans. But I would manually turn them on when the frig started to get warmer inside. I contacted Jayco and they did set me up with a local service shop to get it fixed. Their suggested fix was to re-baffle the top and add insulation in the cavity above the frig. They also left my fans, but wired them to turn on with the temp sensor already on the frig. Well, it works great until the outside temp. gets above 75. Then the same issues started with the inside temp getting up into the 60's as the outside temp reached the 80's. And the new fans didn't work either.
I got a hold of Jayco again and now they are referring me to Norcold. That's my first call in the morning. Hopefully that will get me somewhere.. But after listening to Rusty, I'm getting a little skeptical..

[ChuckW]

We are on the tail end of a 4k mile round robin trip from West TN to the Black Hills, Yellowstone, Park City, Moab, Durango, and Fountain, CO.
Because of less than stellar past performance of our Norcold 1210, and concerns with boiler tube overheating, I installed this https://www.arprv.com/index.php
Our Norcold has never performed better. I actually had to turn down the temp, and my ice cream is almost grocery store hard!!
I installed three fans inside, and one on exterior vent panel.

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by Gunfighter

Rusty as you know I have a 37K with side top vent (not roof) and have futzed with mine also. Below is a view of my bottom vent. ?

It looks like yours is positioned correctly, mine was offset like I have drawn on your picture. We camped with a friend that has a 2018.5 K and he is having the same issues I was having and has tried just about everything.

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by Crossingover

Does this conversion use the existing 'evaporators' and you install a new condenser?

It is a whole new cooling unit, just like in a residential fridge but adapted to the Norcold. Here is a pic of the new unit sitting in the Seneca for installation.

[Rustynuts]

OK, here is the Boondocking for a week update. First couple days were in the high 80's to low 90's and the fridge on setting "3" the inside temp stayed a consistent 1 in the freezer and 38 in the fridge day and night. The draw shown on my Victron Battery monitor averaged 9-12 amps DC with all the inverter circuits on but with none of the TV's or electronics in use, just standby. Usually overnight with the 4 Trojan 105's the voltage would be down to 12.3-12.2 and with the fridge now running on it but turning the ice maker off at night the lowest I saw in the morning was 12.1 but usually 12.2 and the solar quickly started charging as soon as the sun came up, so not much of a change at all.


But on the 4th night, I woke up to the fridge at 44 degrees and the freezer at 18 degrees....not good. Checked all fuses and the compressor was running with one line being hot and the other cold like normal. Now I also tried another device which is suppose to help dial in the temps you want, called "Snip the Tip" which you cut the Thermistor off and wire a small rheostat that you can adjust the temperature with. I had installed it on an old Thermistor/Harness that was bad. It was working great and I was slowly getting it dialed in until the temps started to rise. After checking everything else I installed the original Thermistor that I removed to install the Snip the Tip and within 10 minutes the temps started dropping and within 3 hours the temps were 34 fridge and -6 in the freezer.....so the Snip the Tip unit went out. I will be emailed the company for a refund and just start messing with Thermistor placement to get the temps we want.



The 5th day of our trip, the temp hit 107° and the fridge was not affected at all, still held the 34/-6. Normally in the 3 hour drive home from the river bar the temps on the original fridge would rise to 46-47 in the fridge and around 22 in the freezer but when we got home, it was still on 34/-6. We are very happy with the conversion and it is nice to finally have a reliable fridge, low draw and no worry of a fire! Another thing we noticed is when we stocked the fridge for the trip, the temp rose like normal but had fully recovered to the pre-stocking temp within 2 hours, the factory norcold could never do that!

[SloPoke]

did you leave the fans in the upper vent? or were they removed after this install?

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

did you leave the fans in the upper vent? or were they removed after this install?

All the fans were removed and the entire upper baffle (luan on outer wall) was removed. The new unit has a single fan above the compressor unit that blows up and past the tubes/fins above it.

[SloPoke]

Rusty... I have spent some serious hours researching and analysis of the BTU/Hr and BTU/Ah efficiencies... These cooling units have a lot of great features and it does really reduce the basic challenge of "removing heat". Absorbtion fridges rely on an efficient way to remove the heat from the inside of the fridge - in addition to the boiler stack, but rely on the boiler stack to promote the convection effect of "heat rises". Jayco may have miscalculated the ventilation requirements when they abandoned the roof vent and put the condensing fins of the unit above the upper vent without proper baffling too...

The new cooling unit has all of what is IMPORTANT to removing heat - significantly below the upper exhaust vent and allows that heat to escape. I also studied the 12v Compressor and the BTU/AH ratings it has.. It actually is more capable of cooling larger loads than the 120v compressor, but that is another topic.

So... short question - Keep sharing your real world experience with this cooling unit. I am interested in learning more about ambient temperature on the inlet air - temperature of the outlet vent when you are measuring when the unit is running (compressor on for long periods) in hot climate. !!!

[Gunfighter]

Originally Posted by thecsfour

Gunfighter.... I have the exact same model and the exact same problem. I did the same thing as you with the computer fans. But I would manually turn them on when the frig started to get warmer inside. I contacted Jayco and they did set me up with a local service shop to get it fixed. Their suggested fix was to re-baffle the top and add insulation in the cavity above the frig. They also left my fans, but wired them to turn on with the temp sensor already on the frig. Well, it works great until the outside temp. gets above 75. Then the same issues started with the inside temp getting up into the 60's as the outside temp reached the 80's. And the new fans didn't work either.
I got a hold of Jayco again and now they are referring me to Norcold. That's my first call in the morning. Hopefully that will get me somewhere.. But after listening to Rusty, I'm getting a little skeptical..

Iwill tell you what I have done and everyone can decide which path to take. As Rusty pointed out it looks like my unit is place correctly. However the top baffle was missing and the side area was open. Below I will detail what I did. Before that I think Rusty’s solution is the most elegant however you had best be very handy or get out your check book. I am on day three of a run from Southern California to South Dakota. Past two days have been at about 100 degrees across California desert, Nevada and Utah. Was stopping to cool down the tires, but that is another topic. With what I have done below I can state that my refer stays in the 30’s and my freezer in the 20’s (I have accurite units in each feeding to a central panel). Start out the trip at home on coast at setting 3 and as you drive starts up. Highest I have had it to stay at 38 is 7. When we stop regardless of temp outside it starts to cool down so definite connection to driving and I thinks some cavitation on airflow. What I’ve done:
• Added 12v computer cooling fan on top side exhaust vent.
• Added on/off switch to fan and adjustable thermostat placed near bottom coils of refer.
• Per installation instructions correctly installed top deflector to force hot air out top side vent. The piece of metal from factory was just laying on top of unit allowing hot air to circulate over top of refer and stay in the “box.”
• Large open area next to refer on left side allowing warm air to linger in refer “box” so I built barrier along left side of refer to insulate and contain heat to area at rear of refer and close of the side of refer. RustyNuts used metal, I used ½” sheets of insulation board cut a little larger than the opening and force into place all the way up the side and then taped this in place. Hope this makes sense to you. Basically, with the top deflector in place this holds the heat towards the rear of the box rather than around the refer for more efficient venting up to and out the top vent.
• I put three fans on the inside of the refer to keep the air circulation and frost of the fins. https://rvcoolingunit.com/Dometic-3-...-P5672097.aspx

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by Gunfighter

However the top baffle was missing and the side area was open.

Those few words say a lot.

With a side vent, The airflow that is needed to come across the upper cooling fins, has no place to escape on a side-exhaust install - it becomes completely dependent on removing that heat by what fans are installed in the upper vent. If you have the roof vent, then air continues to rise via convection and it exits the roof vent - removing all of the heat, even if the top baffle Jayco is supposed to install - is not, or is not installed correctly.

This is what I had to deal with on our prior motorhome. Once we put the baffles in the correct places (I went thru the roof vent and installed them) it worked flawlessly.


But Rusty: I still want more of your real world observations... that cooling unit is pretty efficient in BTU/Hr removal.

[chfraser01]

So I have a 2018 Seneca HJ with a less than stellar performing Norcold unit. I had replaced the thermistor about 1 year ago but this past weekend, I noticed the freezer could not keep the ice cream frozen. We are very careful about only loading precooled items in the refrigerator before we head out(plus the refrigerator had been on for weeks before heading out) and had the refrigerator on AC during the drive to the CG. The very best temperatures I would see was 36 in the refrigerator (this will go to the mid 40's when we have had the door open getting stuff out but will return in several hours) and 18 in the freezer. The controls are set to 9. Now it was 95 degrees outside during the day with the refrigerator side of the RV catching the afternoon sun. I even tried a trick I had heard of by unplugging the thermistor to see what would happen. No change. So does this mean that the temperatures I am seeing is the very best that this unit can do?
I have been thinking about ordering the 120 AC unit from JC Refrigeration. My microwave is adjacent to the refrigerator and the microwave power is powered through the inverter, so I am thinking I can feed the refrigerator from the microwave outlet and keep it going while traveling.
Any thoughts, advice, suggestions?? Thanks in advance.

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by chfraser01

So I have a 2018 Seneca HJ with a less than stellar performing Norcold unit. I had replaced the thermistor about 1 year ago but this past weekend, I noticed the freezer could not keep the ice cream frozen. We are very careful about only loading precooled items in the refrigerator before we head out(plus the refrigerator had been on for weeks before heading out) and had the refrigerator on AC during the drive to the CG. The very best temperatures I would see was 36 in the refrigerator (this will go to the mid 40's when we have had the door open getting stuff out but will return in several hours) and 18 in the freezer. The controls are set to 9. Now it was 95 degrees outside during the day with the refrigerator side of the RV catching the afternoon sun. I even tried a trick I had heard of by unplugging the thermistor to see what would happen. No change. So does this mean that the temperatures I am seeing is the very best that this unit can do?
I have been thinking about ordering the 120 AC unit from JC Refrigeration. My microwave is adjacent to the refrigerator and the microwave power is powered through the inverter, so I am thinking I can feed the refrigerator from the microwave outlet and keep it going while traveling.
Any thoughts, advice, suggestions?? Thanks in advance.

First I would go through the installation manual for the fridge and check the installation. My MAIN issue was the vent openings being so offset from the fridge but I found several issues that Jayco failed to follow the strict instructions of the manufacturer. Check all the baffles, space around and above. You don't mention if the upper vent is in the roof or sidewall but then I would try adding fans in the upper vent and see if that helps. These are all cheap easy tries first. If that doesn't help, then I would say that's the best you are going to get out of it. Instead of tying into the Microwave circuit it may be easier to just swap the line for the AC plug for the fridge over to the inverter panel, both panels were right next to each other under our bed and it was about a 15 minute easy swap.



I tried all of the above, I have posted about it on the forums here and while the mods did help a bit, we would still average 38°/18° and the fridge would warm up to around 47° while driving, probably due to the bad vent cover installation. That's when I finally gave up and installed the JC unit after emailing back and forth with them for a month or so....couldn't be happier with the results.

[javamon]

Hi Brian,

Did you remove the fridge doors before removing your fridge?