boon docking question(s)...

[shrpshtr]

hey all,

i have a couple quick questions for you experts. going boon docking for the 1st time this weekend to a softball tournament for my middle child. everywhere we've used the TT we've had hookups to this point. i have a couple of questions but i'll start with the fresh water system. my fresh water tank holds 39 gallons. this trip will be about 50 miles total so i'm thinking i'll be fine to fill it up at home before i leave the house. (no concerns about TV capacity, etc.) is there any chance of damaging anything just by hauling the tank full? my next question is "when" to use the fresh water pump. i could be wrong but understand that will run off the battery. do i cut the water pump on when i want to use the water or leave it on for the duration of the stay and it will pump water when a faucet/toilet/shower is used? i've heard the "on demand" expression used which leads me to believe the pump will only run when needed but i want to be sure not to over-pressurize the water system. the last question i have is related to the battery. i'll plan to run a little 2000w generator at night to keep it charged up. i know the microwave/AC unit(s)/TV/etc. won't run on battery but will any of the lights and/or outlets? i need to use a CPAP and was wondering if the generator needed to run all night to do that. thanks in advance everyone.

shrp

[Hohenwald48]

Originally Posted by shrpshtr

hey all,

i have a couple quick questions for you experts. going boon docking for the 1st time this weekend to a softball tournament for my middle child. everywhere we've used the TT we've had hookups to this point. i have a couple of questions but i'll start with the fresh water system. my fresh water tank holds 39 gallons. this trip will be about 50 miles total so i'm thinking i'll be fine to fill it up at home before i leave the house. (no concerns about TV capacity, etc.) is there any chance of damaging anything just by hauling the tank full? my next question is "when" to use the fresh water pump. i could be wrong but understand that will run off the battery. do i cut the water pump on when i want to use the water or leave it on for the duration of the stay and it will pump water when a faucet/toilet/shower is used? i've heard the "on demand" expression used which leads me to believe the pump will only run when needed but i want to be sure not to over-pressurize the water system. the last question i have is related to the battery. i'll plan to run a little 2000w generator at night to keep it charged up. i know the microwave/AC unit(s)/TV/etc. won't run on battery but will any of the lights and/or outlets? i need to use a CPAP and was wondering if the generator needed to run all night to do that. thanks in advance everyone.

shrp

I always tow with a full water tank. That's why I have an RV so I can be self contained. I know some folks don't. I suppose because their tow vehicle is not up to the task. I've also heard folks say that sloshing water in the tank will cause sway. I think that's hogwash. Never had a problem in nearly 20 years.

The water pump will only run when a faucet is open.

Without the generator, you will only have 12VDC battery power available unless you have an inverter. I have no idea how much current a 12VDC CPAP machine might draw or even if there is such a thing as a 12VDC CPAP so I'll leave that answer to someone else.

[Bucko06]

The electrical outlets will not work off of battery alone. So, you will need to run the generator for your CPAP machine. Regarding the water pump switch: I generally leave the switch on while boondocking unless I go away from the RV for an extended period. You will not hurt the system.

[Kenelz]

I travel with full tanks also, never had a problem. My last two Flights have 80 gal FW tanks, that is a lot of weight.

I leave the pump switch on, but shut it off if I leave. Just in case I don't get a faucet turned off all the way. If I'm there, the pump will cycle if that happens, and I'll know something isn't off.

Have fun, your trailer was built to use without hookups. If you do much boondocking, you might want to pick up a small generator, nice to watch the TV, or use the microwave occasionally. Also to charge batteries for extended stays.

[BuddyRay]

I don't know where you're camping or how close to other campers you will be - but you may find that either the campground has rules about when you can run the generator OR your neighbors complain if you run it past about 10pm.

You should probably figure out how many watts your CPap draws and buy an inverter that will handle it. An Inverter changes 12v DC (battery) to 120v AC. You can find portable units at most electronic stores (Like Best Buys) or at camping stores. But beware, they can draw down your battery very quickly.
Hopefully a CPap user here can give you more exact advise.

[RAurand]

I have a 2016 28BHBE and when I go boondocking (it is about a 30 minute drive each way) I leave the house with all 88 gallons filled. Never had any issues with towing. I have 2 Yamaha 2000 watt generators I run in parallel when I want to run the AC. Otherwise, I run just 1. With 1 2000 watt genny, don't try to run the Microwave and coffee pot at the same time. Yes, the genny will power all the electrical outlets in the trailer. I also leave my water pump on all the time unless I leave for awhile. Then I turn it off to be safe.


ENJOY THE TOURNAMENTS!

[marbles]

We have a CPAP when we travel. I made a 12V adapter so that I could plug the unit into a cigarette lighter receptacle in the trailer. I also installed the receptacle in the trailer
.
We run with two Trojan T-105 batteries and can go the first two nights without the generator. Then the generator runs the third night for 4-6 hours.

Another option which I have found is to use a dedicated battery for the CPAP. Put the battery next to the bed and plug into that. With the right adapters, of course. Whether you use a 12V adapter or connect an inverter is your choice. The inverter will require more power.

The newest CPAP is 19V and will require either a $70 12V to 19V converter or to use the inverter. I will try the inverter first as I will have my solar panel up by then and this should recharge it.

The new CPAP requires 4.53 amps per hour. At eight hours that is 36 amps. You will need to google for what your CPAP draws. Ours uses a humidifier and a heated hose. My 320 watt solar panel should recharge the battery each morning so I am not worried. The old CPAP took less power.

The third battery means I do not need to worry about how much battery is needed.

[shrpshtr]

awesome info guys. thanks for the timely responses. i am probably over-thinking this but at the risk of sounding stupid, how do i fill up the fresh water tank from the city water hookup? the manual says you can but i am not sure how i will know when it's filled. i guess just keep checking the gauge or do i have it all wrong?

RAurand, how do you get to 88 gallons in the 2016 bhbe? i thought it had the same 39 gallon tank config as the 2017?

shrp

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by shrpshtr

snip..... is there any chance of damaging anything just by hauling the tank full?....snip

Shouldn't be any TT issues with a full fresh water tank as long as the added weight is still within the TT's GVWR under loaded conditions.

NOTE: The location of a fresh water tank can effect the TT's loaded tongue weight. For example; if one's loaded TT tongue weight is already on the light side of the recommended 10% to 15% range "prior to filling the tank" and the fresh water tank is located to the rear of the TT.., it's possible once the tank is filled the TV may experience different handling characteristics.

Bob

[Jagiven]

Typically the gravity or country fill port is on the drivers side. It is labeled. Put the hose in the port, turn it on. Turn it off, when water starts poring onto the ground, thought the overflow port.

One thing to advise you. Learn to be water conservative. At home or full hookups you have a tendency to waste alot of water without realizing it.

Good luck.

[sennister]

As others mentioned the campers are designed to carry the weight. It is more of an issue of if the weight will throw off the balance of how your combo is loaded or put you over your max weight ratings. If everything is good you will be fine but you will burn more fuel and take longer to stop because of the additional weight. Though it is carried low so that helps out with center of gravity issues a bit.

As for how to fill it up. Walk around your camper. I am not familiar with your model but my 25BH has two water connections behind the axles on the driver's side. This is the city water hookup and black tank flush. If I walk around to the passenger side just in front of the axles there is another port. This is the fresh water fill port. It is located here on my camper because everything forward of those other ports is on the slideout. They can't put the tank there and they want to keep it as close to the axles as possible so it has to be on the passenger side. It is forward of the axles to help the issue that someone mentioned above about adding too much weight behind the axle and dropping tongue weight where it could cause stability issues.

As for the CPAP. I am also a user. I don't have our new camper yet (PDI two weeks from today) but when I would boondock with my old one I would either not use it or if it was OK to use a generator overnight then I plug it in like normal to a 110V outlet. As mentioned unless you get a different power supply that is 12v or an inverter the change the power from 12V to 110V you can't power it. One thing I am not sure about as I have never load tested an inverter but they are rated to different power levels. So lets say you got a 100W inverter which should run your CPAP. Does it pull 100W even though maybe you are not running a humidifier and/or heated hose? It is possible it will pull full load no matter what is plugged into it or not. I mention this because if it does and I think it might, then if you got a 1000w inverter you would really kill your battery when you didn't need an inverter nearly that big. If you look at the power brick for your CPAP you should be able to get more information on power requirements. I want to say my ResMed S9 has a 90W power brick. So a 100W inverter would be all I would need.

I have been considering my options on which way to go with the CPAP as well. We didn't camp a lot the last couple years. Only went out once last year for an overnight so that is why I would a lot of times just skip it. This year we hope to get out a lot more so I will be less likely to skip it. However where we are going is fine with generators running all night so I will bring it and run off that.

[sennister]

I just look at a couple photos of the camper you have and I see a round connection just forward of the front axle on the passenger side. Your camper like my Jay Feather 25BH has a large slide on the driver's side so they can't put the freshwater tank on that side and have it in front of the axles unless it was way in front of the camper which isn't ideal either when all points of use are mid or rear. I can't tell from the photos if that round connector is an antenna jack for an outside TV or your water fill point. My guess is it is your fresh tank.

Also on the question about someone that had 80 gallons of fresh water. Some of the campers do offer dual fresh water tanks as an option. When they say 88 gallons that might be two 40 gallon tanks and 8 gallons or so in the water heater. It isn't an option on the light weight campers like my Jay Feather but I think I have seen it listed in the Eagles and some of the others. They might start offering it as an option when a camper is so big where it isn't safe to tow it with a 1/2 ton truck. That is a big thing for them to shave weight to expand the market to those of us with 1/2 ton trucks that don't want to have to move up to a 3/4 ton. However with a big trailer once it gets to the point that it is 3/4 ton only then they have a bunch of room weight wise to play with in terms of options like dual AC, extra fresh water tanks and such.

[rtiedeken]

When travelling to a destination where we may need to refill water, we travel with 4-7 gallon tanks full of water in the truck bed along with 2 battery powered kerosene pumps. 1 pump to put water back in the TT, the other to put gas back in the generators.

Blue 7 gallon water tanks are from walmart, battery powered kerosene pumps from amazon. Set the water tank on the ground, put the pump in the tank and the TT fresh water tank, press the button, walk away and come back in 5-10 minutes and repeat until desired water is back in TT.

We boondock 4 nights for the Indy 500 and Nascar every year and this gets us enough water for the trip. We also travel to the track with a full tank as well without issue.


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[shrpshtr]

Sennister, my FWT port is on the pass. side just in front of the axels. So, you have to fill the FWT from the potable water only port. There is no way to fill it from the city water hookup directly? Ok, that makes more sense as I didn't think the two were in any way connected.

Shrp


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[sennister]

Originally Posted by shrpshtr

Sennister, my FWT port is on the pass. side just in front of the axels. So, you have to fill the FWT from the potable water only port. There is no way to fill it from the city water hookup directly? Ok, that makes more sense as I didn't think the two were in any way connected.

Shrp


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Not that I am aware of. I think the issue is the water pump. I am sure they (Jayco) could have plumbed things differently so you could use the city water port to fill the FWT if they had a valve somewhere to open to allow water in there or reverse the pump but it is just easier to hook up to a different port so you don't accidentally leave the fill valve open or the pump in reverse to fill it and not realize you just added a lot of weight to your camper.

The reason I mention that the pump is likely the road block is that when on city water you don't use your water pump. The city water port pressurizes the system. So that tells me the pump sits between the FWT and the water system of the trailer. So there has to be a check valve in the pump to prevent the tank from filling. As I type this the other issue is if there was a valve to fill it and it was left open when connected to city water it would fill the tank and it would constantly push water out the overflow. So I don't think you wouldn't notice you did this but it would be a waste of 40-100 gallons depending on the size of the tank.

Another tip that I have read about for filling the FWT is there is a hose adapter you can get to make the job easier if you find you are going to do more boondocking. It gives you a shut off right at the end of the hose and I think the long tube keeps the water from bubbling up as much as the tank nears filling. I haven't personally used one but was thinking about ordering it when I place a big order of stuff for my new camper. It does take a while to fill it at least with our old camper because it constantly bubbles up, I have to stop let it settle then start adding more. Then once I finally get all the air out of the tank it is pressurized and a bunch of water shoots out of the fill port.

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-40003-W.../dp/B0006IX850

Another thing you might not think of is you will want to plug your camper in to shore power a few days before going on your trip. If your camper has been unplugged your battery(ies) may not be fully charged. While your camper will likely charge off the tow vehicle while driving, you are only going 50 miles and that isn't long enough to give much charge so you will want to power the camper for a while to give it a good charge before leaving.

[RoyBraddy]

It's probably too late to do this now since you are leaving this weekend but the best thing I did with my new to me trailer was do some camping in the back yard with my setup and did all the things I wanted to do to learn what changes I need to work on...

Your ball game sounds like it is on private property so you should not run into generator run time restrictions. I would hate to have to run all night... My 2KW generator will only run for about 6-7 hours with half a load on it...

What one needs to do is beef up the battery bank and the DC System that includes the converter/charger unit and the wiring to be able to run all the things you want to run when off the grid... this does take some planning...

Our battery bank is big enough to run everything we want to use with the biggest drain being from 6PM to 11PM. We make it until the next morning with our setup and the batteries stay above the 50% charge state (Shows around 12.0VDC on the DC VOLTMETER).

Then we fire up our 2KW Honda generator at 8AM and run it for about three hours which is powering up the on-board converter charger and this will bring the batteries back from the 50% charge state to the 90% charge state so we can do this all over again for the next day/night run.

Have no idea what the CPAP draws but the folks running their Propane Furnace all night long with its DC Fan will usually drop a single 12VDC battery setup down to the 50% charge state. If you don't recharge the batteries before the next nights run off the batteries your battery will probably go dead on you before morning... This will do harm to your battery going below the 50% charge state and not get charged back up right away...

The rule of thumb you read on-line for running the Propane furnace is one night one battery...

I suspect that is probably the same for the CPAP machine... If yo do have a DC cable for your CPAP macine it is best to plug this into a DC Socket to run verses getting a small Power Inverter to produce 120AC for it. The battery will be draining ten time more using the low efficient power inverter running your CPAP machine...

All in the planning...

We camp all all the time off the power grid and enjoy it very well - hardly ever go to the camp grounds with hookups...

Roy Ken

[shrpshtr]

ok all, my 1st "official" boon docking trip is in the books. it was so nice having the TT right at the sports complex. it was cold (33°/nt) and windy and was wonderful having a hot cup of coffee and the comfort of home right in the parking lot.

it was a short trip but i was still a little uncertain about how much water we'd need and if my small 2000w generator would facilitate the power needs (CPAP, Keurig, phone charging, etc.) i was pleasantly surprised on all fronts.

so, the FWT system worked wonderfully. i actually filled it with a regular hose and my water filter on the end and then hung the 90° brass elbow i use for the city water hookup right in the potable water fill port. i just left the water running while i purged all the air from the lines. i quickly found the overflow hoses (two white hoses hanging from the bottom of the TT) as they started pouring water out on the ground while i was prepping. all was well after a couple of minutes when the tanks leveled off. once we arrived, even with making several pots worth of coffee, 4 hot showers, regular bathroom visits, and various dishwashing times we still had 2/3rds reading on the FWT meter. (not sure of accuracy of that meter but there seems to have been plenty left). we were pretty conservative but not to the point of "going without" water for anything. the pump is louder than i expected but not to the point of nuisance.

the other thing that really surprised me was the performance of my little Powerhouse 2000w generator. i fired it up about 11p and it ran all night until i shut it off at 730a. it still had about 1/4 tank of gas left and it completely charged the battery, ran 2 phone charges, my CPAP (60w/2.5a), and even the microwave briefly for a coffee reheat. we didn't really attempt to watch TV or listen to music through the sound system as we didn't have time. i was really impressed overall though. i never imagined a 2000w generator would handle that load for that long.

the last thing i want to point out is how well the LP system worked with the hot water heater, central heat, and refrigerator. the hot water heater recovered quickly after each use and the refrigerator stayed nice and cold the entire trip. (we keep it plugged in at home so it's always on). the heater is no joke. we set the thermostat at 72° and had to turn it down because it kept it so warm.

all in all, it was a great (albeit too short) trip. as usual, i learned a lot from you all and appreciate it very much. i am ready to pull out for the next trip...

shrp

[sennister]

Glad all went well. The 2000w will run everything you want in your camper, with the exception of when you go to fire up the AC unit. So as long as you can get by with natural AC and fans it will do quite well. My In-laws have the pair of 2000w Honda Generators for their Heartland Big Horn 5th Wheel. They have to run at least one all the time because they have a residential fridge (no propane option) and unless they want to fire up the AC they just run one of them as there is no need to go through the extra fuel. It is the nice thing about going with the 2000w pair over a single 4000w.

One thing I don't think anyone mentioned and we probably should have about the fresh water tank is that you should sanitize it. They say to do it with every new camper and every spring anyhow. There are lots of videos on youtube on how to do this if interested but basically just running some diluted bleach through the system. Really if you didn't want to mess with this because you don't drink from the system that much I would just grab a gallon jug or two of drinking water from Walmart for making coffee and brushing teeth. If not done it is still fine for showering and all those tasks but I would just use bottled water for consumption.

As far as the gauges, I think they are pretty accurate on FWT and Grey if level. It is the black that can have issues if there happens to be something blocking a sensor.

[Jagiven]

Glad the trip went well! Now with your first boondocking trip under your belt, see an u future rrips?

Happy camping.

[Kenelz]

Glad all went well. There should be no worries for your tanks on a weekend trip. A week or more, you would have to change habits.

We have got so dependent on our electric, its hard to believe it hasn't been around for all that long.

My dad, still alive at 96, talks about growing up without all the stuff we have now. There was no electric all the time he grew up living at home in Michigan. Hand pump well, outhouse etc. Kerosene lamps, coal stove. They farmed with horses, it was in the late 40s early 50s when tractors got to the masses. They thought no different than we do about "making it".

Air conditioning was not existing when I grew up in the 50s. TV just came out, only a few had them. Cell phones and computer were just recent, but kids wouldn't know what to do without them now (and me, lol). Now, we almost panic if the power goes out.

I lived off grid for a couple years, no problem. Sure had to change my habits!

The point I'm trying to make is we don't HAVE to have all that stuff, we are so dependent on it, we think we cant make it without it.

The trailers are built to accommodate camping with or without hookups. I'm wondering for how long they will be made that way. The majority never camp without shore power, seems like the trailer companies would just put in the 110V system, and not go to the expense of the converter to 12V to run off of batteries or solar, for the few boondockers.

There are still a few that do want to get back away from the crowd, a campfire in the boonies, and have home basics of kitchen, crapper, and bed. I sometimes camp in Michigan's state forest campgrounds, there are no hookups, and very few if any other campers. At the same time the state park campgrounds are booked up. The only difference is the electric, the state parks only have electricity, no water or sewer hookups.

I guess I'm regressing, sorry.....