Generator EMS reports open ground

[travelingjw]

About to go on first boon docking trip. Friend loaned me a generator. When I pre-tested the set-up the EMS reports an "open ground" and will not power the TT. My limited understanding of electricity believes that I shouldn't be operating anything with an open ground. Is this correct, and if so, is it the specific generator or is this an issue with using any generator? Thanks!

[ALJO]

Generators have a separated ground lug. You ether attach it to the trailer or put a ground rod in this great earth. Your EMS is designed to not let power through on an open ground. Which is an excellent safety feature. I use the ground lug to TT connection.

[Ela1948]

I have a 3000 watt Honda that showed an open ground on a digital display that I kept plugged into a receptacle. I have a Champion 2800 that doesn't show an open ground. Both have worked flawlessly for years. Don't know which generator you have but it's possible that it is an electronic quirk in your your EMS. ALJO is probably right on track. Either way, it shouldn't be a safety issue.

[sennister]

Actually the issue is that the neutral isn't bonded to the ground. If you ever look in a panel in your house the grounds and neutrals are on a common bus bar.

In a generator this isn't the case. Sure you could hook up a grounding rod and drive that into the ground and hook that up to the ground bolt but you won't be able to get it out of the ground and since Neutral isn't hooked up to this it wouldn't help.

I have a Progressive Industries EMS and they sell an adapter to fix this issue.

https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-I.../dp/B01BYSFQSW

You can make one by going to the hardware store, getting a plug and a bit of wire to tie the Neutral to Ground and plugging it in one of the open outlets on your generator. I know my generator has the 30A 125v twist lock that I use with the camper but there are also a pair of 125V 15A outlets like your home has. Just plug the adapter in one of those outlets and you are fine.

Or since I have the Hardwired EMS-HW30C which includes the remote display with bypass switch. I just flip mine to bypass. That disables the EMS protection but I still have surge protection. If you have the EMS-LCHW30 which doesn't include the remote bypass it is a pain because you have to open up the unit and move a wire to bypass it or buy the optional bypass kit.

https://progressiveindustries.myshop...ass-switch-kit

This is why I went with the one that had the remote display. It was more money but I was going to add the bypass switch and by the time I did that they were about $40 different.

So couple options for you, either bypass it (assuming you have a Progressive Industries) or make an adapter. Personally because it is so easy to bypass it I just do that.

[sennister]

Originally Posted by Ela1948

I have a 3000 watt Honda that showed an open ground on a digital display that I kept plugged into a receptacle. I have a Champion 2800 that doesn't show an open ground. Both have worked flawlessly for years. Don't know which generator you have but it's possible that it is an electronic quirk in your your EMS. ALJO is probably right on track. Either way, it shouldn't be a safety issue.

Some generators are bonded some are note. More often than not the inverter type generators are not bonded. I know Hondas have to have an adapter to tie it together or you have to bypass.

[sennister]

Here is some more information on this and how to make an adapter since you likely don't have time to order an adapter.

Generator Ground-Neutral Bonding | No~Shock~Zone

Edit: The one thing I would have worded different is how they describe how to wire it.

It’s pretty simple to wire a special “Ground-Neutral Bond” jumper cable for your Honda or Yamaha generator which will allow you to power your RV through its voltage protection device. You can obtain or make a dummy 15 or 20 amp “Edison” plug with the Neutral (white) and Ground (green) screws jump together with a piece of 12 or 14 gauge wire (see photos below). This G-N jumper plug can be plugged into one of the generator’s unused 20-amp outlets, and the entire generator’s electrical system will be N-G bonded. You can then use the other 20-amp Edison outlet or the 30-amp outlet to power the RV.

They said tie the Neutral (white) and Ground (green) screws together with a 12 or 14 gauge wire. That is fine but normally the Neutral screw is silver not white. So just to clarify that point in case you are not familiar with what wire goes where when wiring up an outlet or plug. I don't think I have ever seen a white screw. They are brass (gold), silver and green. Brass (gold) is hot, Silver is for the white neutral wire and green ground.

[BigJohnD]

I run a neutral / ground bond plug I made.

[oldmanAZ]

Originally Posted by BigJohnD

I run a neutral / ground bond plug I made.

I made a bonding plug, too. It is orange and has just 2 prongs, the neutral and the ground wired together.

[Magnolia Tom]

Originally Posted by BigJohnD

I run a neutral / ground bond plug I made.

I did this as well


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[Rock]

Did the same on my Honda three years ago. Only cost a few bucks and solves the problem. Honda was of no help at the time, tks to google I found that article. Before I did the plug fix I had a problem that occurred every couple of days. My 3000is would suddenly go into overspeed and trip power.

Not being an electrical guru I had some buddy electrical friends check out my Rv and they found nothing. We still never figured out why but after doing the neutral plug fix it never happened again.
Rock

[Rock]

Did the same on my Honda three years ago. Only cost a few bucks and solves the problem. Honda was of no help at the time, tks to google I found that article. Before I did the plug fix I had a problem that occurred every couple of days. My 3000is would suddenly go into overspeed and trip power.

Not being an electrical guru I had some buddy electrical friends check out my Rv and they found nothing. We still never figured out why but after doing the neutral plug fix it never happened again.
Rock

[DC8Captain]

Originally Posted by sennister

Actually the issue is that the neutral isn't bonded to the ground. If you ever look in a panel in your house the grounds and neutrals are on a common bus bar.

In a generator this isn't the case. Sure you could hook up a grounding rod and drive that into the ground and hook that up to the ground bolt but you won't be able to get it out of the ground and since Neutral isn't hooked up to this it wouldn't help.

I have a Progressive Industries EMS and they sell an adapter to fix this issue.

https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-I.../dp/B01BYSFQSW

You can make one by going to the hardware store, getting a plug and a bit of wire to tie the Neutral to Ground and plugging it in one of the open outlets on your generator. I know my generator has the 30A 125v twist lock that I use with the camper but there are also a pair of 125V 15A outlets like your home has. Just plug the adapter in one of those outlets and you are fine.

Or since I have the Hardwired EMS-HW30C which includes the remote display with bypass switch. I just flip mine to bypass. That disables the EMS protection but I still have surge protection. If you have the EMS-LCHW30 which doesn't include the remote bypass it is a pain because you have to open up the unit and move a wire to bypass it or buy the optional bypass kit.

https://progressiveindustries.myshop...ass-switch-kit

This is why I went with the one that had the remote display. It was more money but I was going to add the bypass switch and by the time I did that they were about $40 different.

So couple options for you, either bypass it (assuming you have a Progressive Industries) or make an adapter. Personally because it is so easy to bypass it I just do that.

Progressive doesn't make them any more but Amazon still has some for sale in their inventory. I bought one last week. If you want to make your own it's very inexpensive to do. There are several web sites that show how to do it without having to read an electric diagram.

[Kahoneys]

Originally Posted by BigJohnD

I run a neutral / ground bond plug I made.

This is because the generator is wired with a floating neutral which is very common for portable generators.

The easiest way to work around a camper that requires a neutral that is bonded to the ground is with an Edison plug that has the neutral bonded to the ground. You can pick up one of these from any electrical supply store or even make one up yourself with components purchased at Home Depot. Basically, the plug is going to have a single jumper wire between the ground and neutral post.

Here is a very good article about why generators are made this way and you can also see the experiences some other consumers have had.
Generator Ground-Neutral Bonding | No~Shock~Zone

Here is the FAQ regarding floating neutral from our own website as well:
WHAT IS "FLOATING NEUTRAL" AND HOW DOES IT AFFECT MY GENERATOR?
Most Champion Power Equipment generators have a "floating neutral", meaning that the neutral circuit is not connected to the frame or to earth ground. This also means that both legs on the receptacle are hot legs, which is normal for floating neutral generators. As a result, there is no specific hot leg and neutral leg wiring arrangement for the generator winding connection to the receptacle. The floating neutral configuration is common for applications such as connection to a recreational vehicle and connection to home power where the transfer switch does not switch out the neutral to ground connection.
The floating neutral eliminates the potential of being shocked by contacting a hot leg and the generator frame at the same time, which could occur if an electrical device such as a hand held tool suffered from an internal short circuit.
Meters or other devices intended to indicate polarity may not properly indicate polarity on a floating neutral circuit. Polarity indicators generally measure the voltage across the neutral and ground connectors. In electrical systems where the neutral is bonded to ground, the voltage will be zero and correct polarity will be indicated. In systems where the neutral is not bonded to ground, voltage is also not expected across this connection. However, in a portable generator some very small current voltage readings can be recorded by sensitive volt meters. This voltage may be induced in the frame by the magnetic field of the generator. The current associated with this induced voltage and the risk of electrical shock are negligible. However, very sensitive polarity meters may interpret this voltage as an indication of reversed connections.
If you have an indication of reversed polarity, please check with the manufacturer of your meter to determine if that reading capability applies to the floating neutral output from a portable generator.
Thank you,
Brian J. Downs | Champion Power Equipment, Inc.
12039 Smith Ave. | Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
Tel (877) 338.0999 ext 401 | Fax (562) 236.9429
BrianD@cpeauto.com | championpowerequipment.com
"Many pretenders, some contenders, one Champion.

[BigJohnD]

Yes, and that's the nuts and bolts of it. I had just stuck to the short answer.

[travelingjw]

Followed instructions below. Made a 6" cord and wired on white to one ground. Ran generator for 45 minutes, didn't charge battery one tenth of a volt. Did I misunderstand something. Didn't have the time to purchase a real Edison plug. Thanks.

[DC8Captain]

Originally Posted by travelingjw

Followed instructions below. Made a 6" cord and wired on white to one ground. Ran generator for 45 minutes, didn't charge battery one tenth of a volt. Did I misunderstand something. Didn't have the time to purchase a real Edison plug. Thanks.

Only one left in stock and they aren't making more.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Kahoneys]

Originally Posted by travelingjw

Followed instructions below. Made a 6" cord and wired on white to one ground. Ran generator for 45 minutes, didn't charge battery one tenth of a volt. Did I misunderstand something. Didn't have the time to purchase a real Edison plug. Thanks.

I made my own plug and it worked splendid.

[Bassdogs]

Its my generator and therefore my power. As a result I have eliminated concern over CG electrical faults or surges. Seems the easiest thing for me to do is just don't use my ems.

[travelingjw]

Thanks, I tried that too. 115 volts coming out of generator but no power to the TT with or without an Edison plug. When I get home I will run a test on the cords. There is some thing simple I am missing. Too close to see it right now.

[sennister]

Did you plug the adapter into one of the open outlets on the generator or the RV? It needs to go on the generator. Is the EMS still reporting open ground? Do you have a multimeter? With the generator off do you have continuity between ground and neutral on the twist lock outlet of the generator with the adapter in the 15a outlet?

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