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Old 02-05-2017, 05:51 PM   #1
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Help determining safe towing weight please

Trying to figure out if our 2014 Ford Expedition can safely tow a JayFlight 28RLS which is really what I think we want. So much math! Would appreciate any help. The following information is all listed in lbs. Trailer dry weight is 6405, gross weight is 8750, cargo weight is 2345, hitch weight is 700. Our Expedition is EL 4x4 with the heavy duty tow package. Curb weight is 5549, max towing capacity 9200, max payload 1690, GCWR is supposed to be 15,000, tongue weight max is 890, RAWR 4250, FAWR 3700, payload 1435. Will be my husband and myself and 2 dogs (total weight of 350 lbs) and not much other cargo in the car. I've spent hours trying to figure this out and would really appreciate some expert advice to make sure we'd be safe and not have to count every pound. Also sounds like we should have a special sway bar and heavy-duty hitch added (and advice regarding these would also be greatly appreciated). THANKS!!!
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Old 02-05-2017, 06:04 PM   #2
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You list 2 different Payload figures but given that tongue weight of your trailer should be about 15% of your loaded trailer weight which would be roughly 1300 pounds (Using max weight) - I believe payload will be your limiting factor using either number.
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Old 02-05-2017, 06:06 PM   #3
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Well, let's see:

Starting with the max payload of 1690 subtract you, hubby and the two woofers, that leaves you 1340 pounds to play with. If you were to max out your trailer's gross weight of 8750, you could conceivably have a maximum of 1312 pounds of tongue weight which would leave you with 28 pounds of wiggle room inside your Expedition. Your tongue weight should be 10 to 15% of the trailer's loaded weight (that is where I came up with the 1312 lbs).

Will you ever have 2345 pounds of weight inside the trailer? If it were us, no. However, you both might be weight lifters or lead weight sales people.

I have been towing since 1983 and I would be very comfortable pulling the 28RLS with your Expedition.

My opinion and worth what you paid for it!

Murff

P.S. Marcm157, Google lists Payload at 1642 to 1696 pounds for a 2014 Expedition EL
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Old 02-05-2017, 06:19 PM   #4
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Thanks Murff - She listed 2 different payloads in her specs that she provided so I wasn't sure which was correct...
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Old 02-05-2017, 08:56 PM   #5
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Have dogs will travel,

Welcome to JOF

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Originally Posted by Have dogs will travel View Post
snip...... The following information is all listed in lbs. Trailer dry weight is 6405, gross weight is 8750, cargo weight is 2345, hitch weight is 700.....snip
The Jayco "published" (web site, brochure, etc.) UVW of 6,405lbs isn't an "as-shipped" weight. The actual "as-shipped" weight will reflect added options and other Jayco configured allowances (i.e.; filled LP tanks, etc.). The "as-shipped" UVW will be noted on the Yellow Sticker posted on the side of the trailer. Performing a search I found that the "as-shipped" weight for a couple 2017 28RLS's was around 6,900lbs.

Hypothetical, moderately "loaded" 28RLS example: (6,900lb UVW) + (600lb cargo- no fluids) (50lbs RV dealer- battery,etc.) = 7,550lbs. We all have different loading habits, so your results may differ.

Recommended loaded tongue weight range: 13% to 15% of 7,550lbs = 981lbs to 1,133lbs, thus exceeding your TV's (Expedition) 890lb maximum tongue weight limit. The 28RLS can be a heavy TT and at 33ft long the 13% to 15% range is highly recommended for enhanced TV handling...., especially in less then ideal weather and road conditions.

Please note that a travel trailer's loaded tongue weight is supported by the TV, so this weight get's subtracted from the vehicles "available" payload capacity.

I would suggest taking your Expedition to a CAT scale ($9, easy 1-minute process) under loaded conditions (full fuel, passengers, dogs, etc.) and confirm it's actual gross weight. Subtract the CAT scale weight from your TV's specified GVWR, the remaining weight is what you have available for a travel trailer's loaded tongue weight and a 50lb WDH. Knowing this information will help you with any travel trailer purchase.

IMO a 28RLS under moderate to heavy loading conditions wouldn't be a good match for your TV as described.

Bob
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Old 02-05-2017, 10:10 PM   #6
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Upon further review, I have to agree with Rustic Eagle. Forgot about the weight limitation of the hitch.

However, is it possible to replace the factory hitch with one of a higher rating? Not jjust on this TV but any?

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Old 02-05-2017, 10:30 PM   #7
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Murff,

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snip......However, is it possible to replace the factory hitch with one of a higher rating? Not jjust on this TV but any? Murff
Good question.....

In the case of the OP, I'm assuming the 890lb tongue weight limit stated is the Expedition's specified tongue weight maximum (w/WDH), not the OEM receiver rating. A vehicle's specified tongue weight limit trumps a higher receiver rating.

"If" the 890lb tongue weight rating was taken from the OEM receiver.., then prior to considering a higher rated receiver one should confirm the vehicle's specified tongue weight limit.

It's possible that the TV's actual available payload capacity could be the deal breaker, then the tongue weight limitation is moot. A CAT visit is in the OP's best interest based on the TV/TT combination being considered.

Bob
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Old 02-06-2017, 09:02 AM   #8
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I would recommend finding a lighter trailer or trading the expedition for a 3/4 ton pickup


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Old 02-07-2017, 11:14 PM   #9
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The 9200# towing capacity you list is for the two wheel drive short Expedition, not yours. Yours if it has the max towing package has towing capacity of 8 thousand seven hundred pounds. I think you would want to get a Class 5 hitch, at least I would.

And to do that max tow Ford requires a weight distribution hitch, which you must have whether they require it or not.

As a former owner of two Expeditions and a current owner of two expeditions, I think you are pushing the envelope. Can you pull it with your Expulsions? Yes. But I would have to have a 15% safety margin. Others are comfortable at maxing out the numbers. You have to decide what you are comfortable with.

And by all means, go to the CAT scale and find out what your ring weighs loaded as you would have it, full tank of gas, adults, dogs, the whole bit. And if you do buy the trailer, load it up and head back to the Cat scales for a thorough weighing of your tow vehicle, your trailer, the tongue weight. There are many threads here telling you exactly how to do that.

After all is said and done, your research should pay off and you should enjoy camping.
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:42 AM   #10
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Our '03 Expe towed an X23B, 4400# and 600# on the hitch IIRC. We were about 300# below the Rear GAWR with just the Bride and myself. If towed "adequately" but not more. My older Expe would be overloaded with your rig.
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Have dogs will travel View Post
Trying to figure out if our 2014 Ford Expedition can safely tow a JayFlight 28RLS which is really what I think we want. So much math! Would appreciate any help. The following information is all listed in lbs. Trailer dry weight is 6405, gross weight is 8750, cargo weight is 2345, hitch weight is 700. Our Expedition is EL 4x4 with the heavy duty tow package. Curb weight is 5549, max towing capacity 9200, max payload 1690, GCWR is supposed to be 15,000, tongue weight max is 890, RAWR 4250, FAWR 3700, payload 1435. Will be my husband and myself and 2 dogs (total weight of 350 lbs) and not much other cargo in the car. I've spent hours trying to figure this out and would really appreciate some expert advice to make sure we'd be safe and not have to count every pound. Also sounds like we should have a special sway bar and heavy-duty hitch added (and advice regarding these would also be greatly appreciated). THANKS!!!
Break this down and it becomes pretty easy. First, throw away the "dry" weight numbers for the trailer - they're almost meaningless. What you need to plan for is the GVWR, 8750 pounds; that's your loaded weight you should plan to be towing. Based on that, the max hitch/tongue weight should be 10-15% of the GVWR; call it 12%, which is 1050 pounds. Hmmm... That doesn't match up real well with the Expedition's max tongue weight of 890 pounds, does it?

Now try it another way. Try subtracting that 1050 pounds from the Expedition's 1435 pound max payload, because that's where it will be applied. That leaves you about 400 pounds for people, dog, luggage, fuel, etc. TOTAL.

That trailer and tow vehicle combination may not be a good match.

Let's work it one more way. Take that 890 pound tongue weight maximum and figure out how much trailer GVWR you can handle. (Divide 890 by 12% to get the answer.) Looks like a GVWR limit of about 7400 pounds. I'm thinking you need a lighter trailer.

Does that help?

Roger
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:08 AM   #12
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I'm going through the same math problem, currently. Let's see if we can break it down a bit:

The big 3 are:
TV payload capacity of 1435
TV Tongue capacity of 890
Trailer weight max of 8750
Plus, you want to keep the tongue weight of trailer between 12-15% of total trailer weight.

Jayco specs 700 tongue. But they don't count: propane in the tanks, battery and battery box, additional because of factory add-ons.
If you assume two 30 lb tanks, that adds 50lbs for filling with propane. Battery can be about 55 lbs. As a guess, based on the trailer I want to buy, maybe another 35 lbs for add-ons (look at the door sticker for "as shipped weight" and take 15% of the amount over the base weight of 6405 for your own figure). And yes, you want a Weight Distributing Hitch with Anti-Sway. Those range from 60 to 120 lbs. We'll use the 60 for this example. Adding it up: 700+50+55+35+60=900 lbs tongue weight. This is BEFORE adding anything to the trailer. This number might be slightly high, but you can see that you are already very near or at the limit for the trucks tongue weight.

That 900 lbs also subtracts from your truck payload of 1435, leaving you with 535 for passengers, dogs, and stuff in the truck.

You may want to find out if you can get a heavier duty receiver put on the truck, but that will take a fair amount of digging as to why there is a limit of 890 currently. It may be more complicated than just welding on something heavier duty. But, for this example, let's say you did, and tongue weight was no longer an issue for the truck....

In the above, you have 535 left for the truck to carry. Assume 450 for the two of you and the dogs and other stuff in the truck. That leaves 85. Tongue weight for a trailer should be between 12 and 15% of total weight. So that 85 can translate into somewhere between 560 and 700 lbs worth of stuff in the trailer. Do-able, but light. You'll be unlikely to carry much water/gray/black liquids when on the road.

So, for your setup, the limits are TV tongue and then TV payload. With the tongue additions and the trailer additions (700+700), we haven't gotten to the trailer GVW, and actually have a pretty good margin, so that is not a concern.

All of the above is on paper, of course. What gets loaded where in the trailer has a big impact. So, in the end, the above may be more of a "worst case". But since the numbers are so close, it looks unlikely you should do it.
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Old 02-08-2017, 11:03 AM   #13
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This is an excellent thread, I have learned a ton of quality information, those who have given examples have made the information crystal clear. Thanks everyone, after reading the information and applying the numbers from my TV and the TT we have on order, I know I am towing safely.
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:39 PM   #14
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Or you can buy a motorhome and tow a small car and pretty much forget all this higher math.
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:58 PM   #15
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Or you can buy a motorhome and tow a small car and pretty much forget all this higher math.
I'm moving down from a 5th, and I thought that was complicated!. There is so much interplay with a TT, it is even worse!
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Old 02-08-2017, 11:11 PM   #16
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Upon further review, I have to agree with Rustic Eagle. Forgot about the weight limitation of the hitch.

However, is it possible to replace the factory hitch with one of a higher rating? Not jjust on this TV but any?

Murff
Can't say for others, but it looks pretty doubtful for an F-150. The factory hitch is also part of the bumper mounting system and crash resistance certification, so it is an integral part. I haven't done a really deep search, but haven't come up with an option yet. A custom shop might be able to fabricate a heavier duty frame mount receiver that hangs below the factory. but that seems costly and problematic.
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Old 02-09-2017, 05:37 PM   #17
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We have a 28 RLS and a 2015 F150 4X4. The specs are similar for the vehicles, even though The 150 has an aluminum body. The gvwr on my truck is 7050 lbs. I went over the scales recently and with a normal load with no fluids in the tanks I was over the gvwr at 7180 lbs. This was with just my DW and two small dogs in the truck. As a result , I have a 2017 F350 on order.

It just felt like it was too much trailer for the truck.
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Old 02-21-2017, 07:09 PM   #18
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We pull a Jay Flight 27RLS in the mountains of WV with a 2015 Ford F150 8 Cyl with no problems. You will be fine with the Expedition.
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