2016 Jayco Eagle HT 26.5 bhs-looking for the solar wire drop

[Onefastdaddy]

@everyone: Well, I know, I am confused as well and can't say what is what for certain as I can't see inside the walls. I can only say what I have seen and measured. Maybe this will help. I haven't digested these numbers yet either, we can all do it together but here's all the permutations and measurements so far.

Summary: We have two wires in two locations we believe are solar related as they act in a related way.
1. In the cabinet behind the "Solar Ready" sticker is a black wire and a white 8 gauge wire. Cut ends. The white was actually inside the cabinet and had to be fished out. The black was just barely visible.
2. In the battery compartment is another black and white 8 gauge wire. The ends have round/loop connectors that fit on a battery post bolt just like the pair that go to the DC inside the trailer. They appear to be just ready to connect to the battery.

Ok, now the actual data, taken with a voltmeter set to DC 200v max
measurements are taken by measuring the potential voltage difference between the red and black probes. The red goes to either the white or black wire I'm trying to measure voltage on and the black probe to trailer ground.

Let's start with the known, measured, data.

Scenario A: Both wires at the battery disconnected, panel on the roof disconnected.
measurements:
Battery Compartment:
Black: 0.0v
White: 0.0v
Cabinet
Black: 0.0v
White: 0.0v

* I also tried touching the black probe (multimeter) to both battery + and - while touching the red probe to the wire black, or white, to measure if the other end was somehow creating a circuit. 0v in all cases both areas.

Scenario B: Battery black goes to 30A breaker used by the front solar ready connector. White goes to battery - (which also goes to chassis ground). Solar panel on the roof not connected.
measurements:
Battery Compartment:
Black: 0.0v
White: 0.0v
Cabinet
Black: 0.0v
White: 0.0v

Scenario C: Battery wires disconnected. Solar panel on the roof connected to the connectors on the roof.
measurements:
Battery Compartment:
Black: 0.0v
White: 0.0v
Cabinet:
Black: 0.0v
White: 0.0v

Scenario D: Battery wires connected. Solar panel on the roof connected.
measurements:
Battery Compartment: NA these are connected and will give battery voltage now.
Cabinet
Black: 0.0v (even when touched to + side of DC in for the remote)
White: 34.0 when black probe is on the + terminal of the remote where the + (black) from the main controller goes in. 47.2v when the black probe is touched to the - (white) DC in for the remote controller.

PS: By remote controller right there (see prior) photos is the remote control controller (in cabinet) by the black and white wires. This thing has DC in from the main panel I can use to access battery voltage -/+ That's what I'm measuring with for reference.

[Onefastdaddy]

@klassic: I'm not yet sure I can just walk into the dealer and say it's broken until I know just how it's broken.
I just looked in every document/manual/booklet given with the trailer and can only find the "Wired for Solar" Go Power! handout. It says "Get off the grid. This RV is Wired for Solar...and goes on to say it's wired for their Go Power! kits.
Checking online the GoPower is a PWM controller, and old technology at a premium. A newer MPPT controller with a 30A rating should cost less than 50.00 online. A 120W flexible solar panel online is 258.89 on Amazon. I can have 240W of solar with an MPPT controller for less than 600.00. No thanks Jayco. I prefer to install the latest technology not 10 year old technology in a new 2016 trailer. I will need their help to undo this and get a more up to date controller installed.

[Onefastdaddy]

Ok, you electricians and EE may like this post better. Using a continuity setting on the multimeter I checked the outputs from the top connector.

The test was: disconnect the panel and connect two long solar wiring extension cables to the roof connectors. I made a note which was (+ / - ) out from the panel that went into the roof connectors. I then used those wires connected up top that now reach to the battery box and to the inside cabinet to measure the ohms/continuity between those wires connected up there and the black and white in the cabinet and the black and white in the battery compartment.

Success. The White in the cabinet goes to the + input on the roof. The black at the battery goes to the - input on the roof. What????

Yep, I got infinite on the black in the cabinet and also at the white in the battery box for either of the roof wires. I got 0ohms on the roof + at the white in the cabinet and got 0ohms from the roof - at the battery black wire.

So, Jayco wired the roof negative to the battery box black (normally + wire) and the Roof positive to the normally negative (white) wire in the cabinet.

I have tested the black in the cabinet to the DC connections in the main controller and to the battery box area and it's not connected to anything in either spot. I see no loose wires when I go behind the microwave where all the wires come out of the wall and go towards the inside of the cabinet.

Sadly I think this will be a warranty issue as I don't see how this current wiring is ready for a charge controller of any sorts. Anyone have inputs otherwise?

Here's a diagram showing what I found with the continuity testing.

[klassic]

Keep up the good work Daddy.
I understand what your saying, but I don't understand why it's like that.
My prewire is more than simple.

Check if you have continuity between your mysterious battery white and ground.
Like I said before, I thought that wire was your chassis ground to battery -

[Onefastdaddy]

Now I have a hypothesis. They wired + and - backwards at the roof and the black in the cabinet was supposed to be + and the white ground. Maybe the Go Solar panel is reversed compared to my Grape Solar 250W panel? I used a multimeter at the outputs from the panel to confirm my + and - values. To confirm I connected the solar panel at the roof again. Knowing - goes to the black at the battery compartment and + at the white in the cabinet I used an 8 gauge jumper from the white in the cabinet to the battery box area. Using a multimeter I got the same voltage now with measuring the black at the battery box as - and the jumper at the cabinet to + as I did at the roof from the panel. That effectively connected the panel to the battery box area. The white in the battery box and the black in the cabinet seem open somewhere. Maybe coiled up somewhere hiding but it's not behind the sticker and it's not anywhere I can find.

Hence why the more I test the more I just realize this is now something that needs to be looked at by the Jayco Dealer now. Calling them tomorrow.

[Onefastdaddy]

Originally Posted by klassic

[snip]
Check if you have continuity between your mysterious battery white and ground.
Like I said before, I thought that wire was your chassis ground to battery -

I did, nope, white at the battery area to chassis ground or battery - (even + for that matter) is open.
I also used a jumper in the cabinet to the black and tested everywhere I could find. I tested to the battery and chassis and all over the place...open.
Could be the black in the cabinet and the white at the battery are meet somewhere and are taped together and labeled. No idea where. I counted the wires inside the cabinet and I don't see any other 8 gauge wires from the wall to the cabinet other than those 2. Meaning if as the dealer said they have to "Fish" the wires out they are not where they are supposed to be in the cabinet area. The cabinet has open areas where the cables are run from the wall behind the microwave to an open space under the cabinet. See my photo. The red line is where all the wires going to the cabinet area there are routed in a concealed air space created under the inside bottom and the outside bottom of the cabinet. The bottom of the cabinet is made with two layers with an air gap inside used as a conduit.

FWIW: [Removing the microwave (easily done only a few screws) you can clearly see all this]

Could be the missing link is behind the fridge but I'm not going to remove it to find out at this stage.

[klassic]

Take the picture of my coiled up wires with the stickered and taped ends with you to the dealer so when they say it's not supposed to be that way you can show them it is suppose to be pre wired that way.
And show them the pictured of my red 8ga solar wire attached to a 30amp breaker and ask them where your breaker is.

[Onefastdaddy]

@klassic: I agree, however, can you point me at that photo of your coiled up wires? I remember seeing it but do not see it in this thread.

[klassic]

Sorry it's not a very crisp picture but you can see the sticker that says solar option.

The solar wire is the red wire right in the middle attached to a 30a breaker then goes over to the power post where the 4ga to the battery is attached.

[Onefastdaddy]

Thank you.
Your wiring appears to show positive (Red to Black) down in the battery area. This hints at my idea maybe the wires are reversed up top as I have the ground from the solar going to black in the battery compartment.

[klassic]

The only reds I have are the positive from the roof, the positive from the side solar, and the positive for the GroundControl... EVERYTHING else is black positive and white negative. All my solar is white negative too.

[Onefastdaddy]

Yes, exactly, I see you said the Red wire in the middle...isn't that the red from the roof solar?

[klassic]

Yes, the red in the middle is the roof that goes to the taped off ends coiled up. The red to the left is GroundControl, and the red on the bottom is the side solar.

In the taped off coil picture one pair of red/white goes to the roof, in the other pair the red goes to the mentioned breaker in the picture, but the white goes to the frame, not to the battery.

I just noticed your other hand drawn pictures. Awesome drawings! Lol.
I'm always jealous of people that can draw pictures of any sort. For that matter, that can print legibley

[Onefastdaddy]

I just had a very interesting call with Jayco Customer Service. He flat out refused to discuss any aspect of wiring with me. He said I was under warranty and that I must discuss this only with RV Sacramento (My local dealer). He would not discuss anything. Very disappointing.
I understand if my car had a warranty and I wanted to install a car stereo because it said it was pre-wired for car stereo and I found the wiring was not right I should go to the dealer. But I also believe if I called the factory rep they would also help me. Wiring diagrams for cars are available online easily.

I hope this thread is found by others. It is info worth knowing when you shop. It's 2016. People want solar options. Everyone should learn more about how this all works. Solar is like air. If you have lungs you can use it. If you have a panel and sun you can make energy. It's just there so why not take advantage of it? You use less coal/oil based power that way. If everyone used a bit less grid based energy the combined saving is huge. Maybe you run the generator a bit less, maybe you run your car engine less etc. It all adds up. I won't give up on getting solar in this thing.

I called Jayco support after leaving a voicemail for the service department at Sacramento RV. Honestly I would pay RV Sacramento to put the solar in it but that would require them convincing me they could do a better job than me.

That's another life lesson I learned, from Steve Jobs. Everything you see around you in the world was designed by people no smarter than you. It's a simplification but very true. Those people simply studied more and just did those things required to get to that level So installing solar here isn't rocket science. The installers you pay are no smarter than any of us in that they simply taught themselves or learned to do it and do it for hire.

I have paid a lot of money to people to do terrible work. The options for installing solar in an RV are limited. Friend suggest I go to CampingWorld in Roseville here. I maybe to get a second opinion. The reason is I want someone who wants to do quality work not someone just trying to get paid. I took my trailer to them for a roof leak and their fix was not to remove the old sealant but to just pile up new sealant around the old work creating now a giant pile of that stuff all over the roof. Essentially there's still gaps and cracks just now it's buried under 3 tubes of sealant.

If RV Sacramento truly wants to do a great job I will find out soon and they will get the business and I will praise them here.

If they don't I will either find someone who will or do it myself and document me doing it, which will look a lot like the job klssic did as his is exemplary and worthy of praise, and share that to encourage others.

[Onefastdaddy]

It is probably worth noting that as far as I can tell our trailers are warrantied by each of the vendors independently. Your TV thought the TV vendor, the radio, oven, microwave, wheels, suspension all of it is just assembled from new warrantied parts by Jayco (or an authorized assembly plant).
This is good to know at purchasing time and to get clarification. Actually when you go sign the papers and they try and sell you the extended warranties they point this out.
This is the 21st century. It is a consumers world now because we can educate each other. YouTube, social media, forums, and more make this a great time to be a consumer.

I just called RV Sacramento back a second time and again was given to the voicemail where I left a second voicemail requesting a call back.

[Cdash]

I think the most frustrating part is that the dealer isn't necessarily smarter than us, or Jayco and even worse, may just give an uninformed answer.

I did notice earlier, when I saw a recall notice that linked to the NHTSA site and decided to search, that the recall on the 2016 HT's showed up. Under that recall there is a link to "associated documents". One of these documents is "Remedy Instructions and TSB" which details the fix. The part of it that makes it related to this is that they mention red vs white for the wire to go to the breaker. White was early build, red is later builds.

Here (hopefully) is a link:

2016 JAYCO EAGLE | Safercar | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

Also interesting is that I read in one of the documents was that the "defect"was found by a Jayco Engineer and a Vender. I wonder if the company that makes the "solar package" was brought in to figure out what was not being done correctly?

[klassic]

This would explain why I don't see your roof solar breaker.

Snip...
Jayco, Inc. (Jayco) is recalling certain model year 2016 Eagle Half Ton fifth wheels and Eagle travel trailers manufactured April 8, 2015, to February 19, 2016. In the affected trailers, the positive cable (B+) connecting the battery box to the roof-mounted solar panel preparation package may not be protected by a circuit breaker.
CONSEQUENCE:
Without circuit protection, the wire may short circuit, increasing the risk of a fire.
REMEDY:
Jayco will notify owners, and dealers will tie the unprotected circuit into a 30amp circuit breaker, free of charge. The recall began on March 18, 2016. Owners may contact Jayco customer service at 1-800-283-8267. Jayco's number for this recall is 9901286.

[Onefastdaddy]

Originally Posted by klassic

This would explain why I don't see your roof solar breaker.

Snip...
Jayco, Inc. (Jayco) is recalling certain model year 2016 Eagle Half Ton fifth wheels and Eagle travel trailers manufactured April 8, 2015, to February 19, 2016. In the affected trailers, the positive cable (B+) connecting the battery box to the roof-mounted solar panel preparation package may not be protected by a circuit breaker.
CONSEQUENCE:
Without circuit protection, the wire may short circuit, increasing the risk of a fire.
REMEDY:
Jayco will notify owners, and dealers will tie the unprotected circuit into a 30amp circuit breaker, free of charge. The recall began on March 18, 2016. Owners may contact Jayco customer service at 1-800-283-8267. Jayco's number for this recall is 9901286.

You got it!

I got a call back from RV Sacramento. BTW, my high expectations of them are well founded. They informed me they just got in the parts for that recall and my trailer is affected. It will take about 1hr and they booked me to come in this Thursday.

My disappointment in Jayco not talking to me was made up by RV Sacramento scheduling me so quickly to remedy this.

About the above: " In the affected trailers, the positive cable (B+) connecting the battery box to the roof-mounted solar panel preparation package may not be protected by a circuit breaker."

I am told that is why the open circuit there. Apparently yes somewhere inside my trailer that open + lead could ground itself and be a problem. However, I still suspect the wires are reversed based on my diagrams and testing posted earlier. It will just be weird to hook a single black wire in the battery box to ground and the white to + and in the cabinet the same. White to + and black to -.

[klassic]

Originally Posted by Cdash

I think the most frustrating part is that the dealer isn't necessarily smarter than us, or Jayco and even worse, may just give an uninformed answer.

I did notice earlier, when I saw a recall notice that linked to the NHTSA site and decided to search, that the recall on the 2016 HT's showed up. Under that recall there is a link to "associated documents". One of these documents is "Remedy Instructions and TSB" which details the fix. The part of it that makes it related to this is that they mention red vs white for the wire to go to the breaker. White was early build, red is later builds.

Here (hopefully) is a link:

2016 JAYCO EAGLE | Safercar | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

Also interesting is that I read in one of the documents was that the "defect"was found by a Jayco Engineer and a Vender. I wonder if the company that makes the "solar package" was brought in to figure out what was not being done correctly?

Cdash it says in the TSB that positive was either BLACK or RED depending on the build date. WHITE was still negative. So Onefastdaddy's solar is still wired backwards by someone, supposedly, smarter than us and responsible for us having a safe rig.
Oh wait, I'm wrong...that person only cared about getting the heck out of the factory by 12pm.

[Cdash]

Originally Posted by Onefastdaddy

I am told that is why the open circuit there. Apparently yes somewhere inside my trailer that open + lead could ground itself and be a problem. However, I still suspect the wires are reversed based on my diagrams and testing posted earlier. It will just be weird to hook a single black wire in the battery box to ground and the white to + and in the cabinet the same. White to + and black to -.

The recall procedure only directs them to take the Black or Red Wire, cut off the existing 5/16" ring terminal, attach a new 8GA terminal with #10 hole and attach it to the EXISTING 30 amp breaker ("The correct breaker will have a black wire attached to the bottom terminal").

I don't think the recall will solve your problem, but I think talking to them about what you have and haven't found may help them to dig further than just performing the recall and saying "We're done" because they followed directions.