GPS Thoughts

[Scott91370]

So way back in 2011 I bought a TomTom XXL with lifetime maps & traffic. I've often wondered what their definition of lifetime is because to me it is until the device doesn't function anymore. Last week I get an email stating they are discontinuing the updates because the unit does not have 'sufficient resources'. 7 years... not very lifetime to me.
Here is their email:

Every day, at TomTom, we work very hard to bring you the best navigation experience ever. A big part of this work is to continuously improve the quality of the maps, services and software that your GPS runs on. It has become clear that some of our older generation navigation devices do not have sufficient resources to run the newest maps and software available.

We will continue to provide quick GPS fix updates so your device will continue to function as it does now, but your map will become out-of-date and as such navigation will be less accurate.


For this reason, we have had to stop software updates, sales of map updates and other services as of January 2018. Your trusted device will still work perfectly but you will no longer be able to buy any further map update.

The latest generation of TomTom devices now come with Free lifetime updates for World Maps, Traffic and Speed cameras. Maps, services and software are easily updated via Wi-Fi without the need to connect to a computer. They are also the fastest devices we have ever built, with quad core processors and 16GB of memory (expandable via SD card).Every day, at TomTom, we work very hard to bring you the best navigation experience ever. A big part of this work is to continuously improve the quality of the maps, services and software that your GPS runs on. It has become clear that some of our older generation navigation devices do not have sufficient resources to run the newest maps and software available.

We will continue to provide quick GPS fix updates so your device will continue to function as it does now, but your map will become out-of-date and as such navigation will be less accurate.


For this reason, we have had to stop software updates, sales of map updates and other services as of January 2018. Your trusted device will still work perfectly but you will no longer be able to buy any further map update.

The latest generation of TomTom devices now come with Free lifetime updates for World Maps, Traffic and Speed cameras. Maps, services and software are easily updated via Wi-Fi without the need to connect to a computer. They are also the fastest devices we have ever built, with quad core processors and 16GB of memory (expandable via SD card).

They were nice enough to offer a discount on a new model, but that still $150 I shouldn't have to spend...

I know a lot of you are now saying, who uses those anymore with GPS in cars and on your cell. Well, I'm not paying the $150 a year to update the in-car unit that is, at best, clunky and unless you can download the entire map (which I haven't found yet) Google is only half reliable.

Thanks for listening and I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts.

[Lolead]

In my opinion this is the "scam" of the electronics and appliance industry today. When items were mechanical they could wear out because most mechanical items will eventually, after long use, break. Now almost everything is built with "built in obsolence". I never remember a mechanical GPS but, since there are no mechanical parts to it the manufacture simply "kills" the item. We had a tv that was less than 3 years old and when we took it to have repaired, were told that it was oboslete, and parts no longer available. I have a Magellen Roadmate that works perfectly but, updates can not be purchased for.

[bluie5]

I had an old Garmin unit with lifetime map updates. When it came to the point that Garmin could not update it anymore they replaced it with a brand new, newer model, with lifetime updates. I think it cost me $10 for shipping.

[Force]

I gave up on the dedicated GPS units after my last one (also a TomTom) finally crapped out after oh 5 years or so

I use the Waze app on my smartphone now.

[Les7h]

Garmin RV760 - LMT
Can you set height - length - weight permiters on your phone? Will it route you around low clearance obstacles or weight limitation bridges?
My Garmin does & it's worth it's weight in GOLD - IMHO
Les

[Scott91370]

Originally Posted by bluie5

I had an old Garmin unit with lifetime map updates. When it came to the point that Garmin could not update it anymore they replaced it with a brand new, newer model, with lifetime updates. I think it cost me $10 for shipping.

I wish they would do that, I'd Ben ok with it. They did off a discount on two models.
1) Original price $250, discounted price $175
2) Original price $200, discounted price $160

Not very customer friendly. Maybe I'll wait until someone starts a class-action and I'll get a whopping $50 check from it since the lawyers will take the majority of the money.

[GRUU]

Originally Posted by Force

I gave up on the dedicated GPS units after my last one (also a TomTom) finally crapped out after oh 5 years or so

I use the Waze app on my smartphone now.

We use Waze also and love it. Always gets us there.

[Scott91370]

Does Waze download the entire map of the USA so it will work when you're in an area with no cell coverage? This is the issue with phone based GPS.

[bankr63]

Originally Posted by Scott91370

Does Waze download the entire map of the USA so it will work when you're in an area with no cell coverage? This is the issue with phone based GPS.

This is also the issue likely facing Tom Tom too and causing them to drop support for older devices.

The smart device GPS (waze, GMaps) are overtaking because they offer so much more content. So Garmin and Tom Tom have to pack so much more information into their devices to serve it up offline. Most of this is probably the POI (point of interest) data rather than the maps. A 7-year old unit has about 1/4 of the storage memory of a current GPS, and probably can't hold the base map and POI anymore. I know my first Garmin (still actually running in SWMBO's car) barely had enough space for the North America maps when new; there is no way I could get an update for it now.

As for downloading the maps to a smart device, I understand that cell coverage can be an issue, but I have been using Google maps on my cellphone (switched from Waze) for a couple of years, and have never had a map drop out. Most of them are smart enough to buffer a few tiles ahead on your route in case of short drop outs (same as buffering online videos).

Also, the data usage isn't as much as many seem to think. My last Ontario to Florida trip I had GMaps on both ways; 48 hours of driving. Those two days were actually my two lowest days of data usage for the trip, and my bill showed usage measured in kilobytes not megabytes.

Considering that GMaps is free, and has access to SO MUCH more POI data than any other platform, I think the benefits far outweigh the couple of negatives, and I don't have to pay anything to use it (well $20 for the Scosche mount in my car, not including phone cost because I'd have it regardless of mapping software).

[Flyrotor]

I just purchased the Garmin LMT-S, it shipped today, should arrive early next week.

I’m a huge Garmin fan! Tried others including smart phone, Magellan, and I can’t beat a Garmin. The biggest problem with the smart phone is as you get in traffic and nearing your next turn and you receive a phone call, interrupts your map regardless of whether you answer or not!

I’ll stick to the dedicated GPS any day, it has always come through for me, never lost coverage, no buffer, always processing your routes whenever nd where ever. I can always use my phone in a pinch if I have to walk around in a city or a shopping/tourist area. But then, I also have a hand held Garmin for trails and hiking with loads of maps installed, so I’m good with whatever!

[Rafstar]

I really like Waze. It let's me know what is up ahead (traffic, debris on the road, broken down vechicle, etc.)

[RayBo]

The TomTom folks told me that it was meant to be the "lifetime" of the unit, not MY lifetime. I really did laugh out loud at the little girl making that assertion.

Comforting...not so much.

There is a tool I use that handle routes, clearances, which is https://www.randmcnally.com/electronics/rv also available as an app for iPhone. Not sure how well the app works, but the device is great.

Here are some of their features:

• Safe and easy routing for 11 types of RV, customized for the specific vehicle
• Routing based on legal and physical restrictions, such as low bridges, weight limits, and propane restrictions, and favoring right or left-hand turns depending on RV size and class
• Warnings for speed limit changes, sharp curves, dirt roads, and other potential hazards
• RV checklists–Prepare for trip departure, campsite setup, and more. Or create your own lists

The app is $100. It's $200-600 for the hardware device, depending on the features. It really is pretty good.

[vcbice]

Phone gps apps. I have tried several. Tom Tom, OMSand, Copilot.

I use Copilot on a regular basis. I also "upgraded" to the Copilot for RVs that has height an length information on it so it will route around low bridges and such.

I have never liked TomTom. BIL had one and just did not like the feel. Tried Magellan but they were bad on discontinuing support. Garmin in the truck works the best.

Phone GPS apps such as Copilot and OMSand are stand alone systems. They download maps and POIs for the entire country or continent (takes about 3GB). They work as well as any of the other GPS units.

Some drawbacks. While they can run in the background and still give voice direction commands, they can be messed up by other phone functions. I have had the GPS app lock up on me if I am doing something like surfing the net that uses up a lot of CPU time. The GPS app will suck down a battery fast. Between the screen being on all the time, the location function working full time and the phone looking for cell signals, a battery may only last an hour or two. So, the phone has to stay plugged in to a good 2A USB adapter.

Copilot also does not do very well with speed limit information. Some states it will not show limits off the interstate, which can be a real pain. Some areas it is just wrong. Not sure how OMSand does these days since I have not tried it for a few years. Tom Tom on the phone did OK with speed limits. One thing I do like about the speed limit function on Copilot is you can set the alarm to 5 or 10 over the speed limit instead of right at the speed limit (like Garmin does).

So, for long trips I do like having my Garmin as well as the phone.

My wish? Integrate real time weather radar with the GPS. When traveling I set up my phone with the weather radar map and use the Garmin GPS for directions.


PS you can also use these apps with a tablet of your choice. It can be kinda cool to have a 10in GPS unit, if you can find a place to mount it.

[michael.g]

We have an old Garmin Nuvi. We bought it in 2009, so almost 9 years old. I think 3 map updates ago we could no longer update the maps because they wouldn't fit on the unit. The unit was old enough that it couldn't accept an SD card larger than 2 GB. The maps are about 2.65 GB now.

We still use it, but if we are going somewhere new to us, we usually verify with Google Maps.

I would agree with the OP that Lifetime Maps means for the life of the unit, but if the unit doesn't have the storage space for the Maps update, there's not much that can be done.

-Michael

[Force]

Originally Posted by Scott91370

Does Waze download the entire map of the USA so it will work when you're in an area with no cell coverage? This is the issue with phone based GPS.

Good question, I had to look it up as I wasn't sure. Seems you might have to force it to download before you go. Take a read of this:

https://smartphones.gadgethacks.com/...droid-0180516/