30 amp to 50 amp conversion

[DUX4LIFE]

I just picked up my new breaker panel for the conversion. This is what I bought https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...0FCP/100149777 Is there any reason I couldn't lay the panel horizontal instead of vertical? I am installing it under the bunk bed in the storage compartment. I will probably recess it in the bathroom wall and it would fit better if it was horizontal rather than vertical. I only need to add about 4' of 6 ga wire from the factory junction box to this panel. When I add the new shore line I will do as the factory did and go from their junction box. I will probably go with the detatchable shoreline though.
I purchased a double 50 amp breaker for the mains and 320 amp tandems breakers for the legs. I also purchased a 20/30 amp tandem breaker for the original panel to become a sub panel. I will attach a picture shortly and if any of the electrical guru's here see a problem please let me know.

[DUX4LIFE]

Had to post a photo of the drawing since the program wouldn't accept an odt. file

[Vicr]

The electrons won't care if the panel is mounted horizontally as they aren't affected by gravity.

[DUX4LIFE]

I figured that but while looking for sub panels one mentioned that it could not be mounted horizontally.

[Jagiven]

I could not blow up the wiring diagram image on phone. Only concern, is your comment about 20/30 amp tandem breaker to feed the original panel. The original panel does not require a tandem breaker. You only need a single leg of power.

Also watch what leg you put that 30 amp breaker on. As you will want to make sure you have power to the oem panel if you connect to a 30 amp only pedestal via a dog bone.

[Vicr]

Originally Posted by DUX4LIFE

I figured that but while looking for sub panels one mentioned that it could not be mounted horizontally.

"one" was wrong.

[Jay2504]

I don’t see any problem going horizontal with the new panel. Will the only cord that you will use be the new 50 amp? I would really like to see pictures of the installation please. Jay.

[DUX4LIFE]

Originally Posted by Jagiven

I could not blow up the wiring diagram image on phone. Only concern, is your comment about 20/30 amp tandem breaker to feed the original panel. The original panel does not require a tandem breaker. You only need a single leg of power.
The reason I am using a tandem breaker is the box I bought only has 6 spaces/12 circuits. 2 of those spaces are for the 50 amp main breaker. That only leaves me with 4spaces/8 circuits. These tandem breakers are not locked together and trip independently.

1. 50 amp main
2. 50 amp main
3a. 30 amp tandem existing panel
3b. 20 amp new water heater conversion
4a. 20 amp electric heater in bedroom/ spare outlet
4b. 20 amp tandem electric heater in living/spare outlet
5a. 20 amp spare kitchen outlet
5b. 20 amp Future 2nd air conditioner
6a. empty
6b. empty

Each of the a/b is tandem breaker to give me more circuits in the same space like thishttps://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...20CP/302855746 and this https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...20CP/202353308

Also watch what leg you put that 30 amp breaker on. As you will want to make sure you have power to the oem panel if you connect to a 30 amp only pedestal via a dog bone.

I wondered about that. Are all of the pedestals wired alike? In other words If I pull off of the left hot will it always be the same no matter where I go?

[DUX4LIFE]

Originally Posted by Jagiven

I could not blow up the wiring diagram image on phone. Only concern, is your comment about 20/30 amp tandem breaker to feed the original panel. The original panel does not require a tandem breaker. You only need a single leg of power.

Also watch what leg you put that 30 amp breaker on. As you will want to make sure you have power to the oem panel if you connect to a 30 amp only pedestal via a dog bone.

Ok, I had to draw it out on paper to grasp it and now I see what you mean. I will test before deciding which leg to use.
I also will wire up the water heater to an outlet in the storage bay so I can plug it in rather than hardwire it as the camco kit already has a plug. Same with the 2nd AC so If I have to I can run a 20 amp extension cord if I don't have a 50 amp hookup and plug both of these into that. I may have to play with them and not run them at the same time. The 50 amp service will really shine for my electric heat I am installing. It should be simpler than running duct work to the bedroom as my bedroom doesn't have any heating ducts.
I need to rebalance the circuits out if I want the 30 amp original leg with the new additions I see!

[DUX4LIFE]

Originally Posted by Jay2504

I don’t see any problem going horizontal with the new panel. Will the only cord that you will use be the new 50 amp? I would really like to see pictures of the installation please. Jay.

I pondered the multiple cord issue and have decided that I will probably just go with a 50 amp cord. It shouldn't be much more than a 2nd 30 amp cord as I was reading up on several people that just ran dual 30 amp services and really like them. To me a single 50 amp seems about the same cost and less complicated.
I also intend to be able to run a 20 amp cord for the 2nd AC/water heater (both will have a plug on the end and plug into an outlet hardwired near the breaker panel) if I would have to go down to a 30 amp service for the trailer instead of the 50 amp service.

[Jay2504]

One thing about the 50 amp cord is that it is heavy and somewhat hard to handle. The 4 #6 wires don’t flex much. I’ll throw an idea out there. Go with the dual 30 amp set up.put the second AC, the electric water heater and some new interior outlets. Make up a 30-50 amp adapter that uses the “other leg” from everyone else uses. When you only have 30 amps available, just plug in the second cord into the 20 amp plug. Then run the water heater on gas if you want to run the second AC. To me that would be a lot less work, not having to make the original panel a sub panel, and 30 amp cords are way cheaper. Just a thought. Jay

[DUX4LIFE]

I thought about that but I still need another breaker panel for the outlets, water heater and 2nd AC. The additional panel will also allow me to add electric heat to the bedroom where their is currently no heat. The breaker panel only cost $20. It is a Square D Homeline. Breakers were less than $60. I went with that one because it uses the same breakers as the original panel and the 2 that I have in my house. Since I have to make up a cord either way how much more is the 6 GA vs the 10 Ga? I don't know which brand to go with but they seem to be about $75 more on average for the same length.
It just seems that I would be getting so much more for an extra $200 and some of my time. However I do ALWAYS tend to overkill on everything I do and that is never free! I am just looking to make the camping trips as stress free as possible by providing as many options as possible.
Also retirement has made me bored so I don't mind projects. Today I sealed up the 2 "Lend-a-hand" handles and rear view camera I installed the other week. I also got around to adding the new wheels and axel to the new 36 gallon Rhino tote I got a few weeks ago. Turned out nice.

[newsleet]

Not a electrician but I think the box you have is designed to be run off a 100 amp(or 50 if that's all you need) breaker in in the main box and not back fed thru the 50 amp 220v breaker you have .

[DUX4LIFE]

I'm confused. The box is rated for 100 amps but I bought a twin 50 amp breaker for the main breaker of the new box. I haven't decided if I am going to feed the 30 amp original box from THIS 50 amp box or just splice it into the new 50 amp cord at the junction box where it now splices into the 30 amp cord.

[Vicr]

As a professional electrician of 36 years could I offer my advice? Please hire an electrician to do the work. This is a long thread with various scenarios with few or none that comply with the NEC. Asking for electrical help on the internet is akin to asking medical advice on the internet, not a good idea. I can say a few things, yes you need a 50 amp main breaker (2 pole) at the new panel you're installing which will be fed from the power pedestal with a 6/4 SJOW cord, you need to feed your existing panel with a 30 amp single pole breaker (to protect the #10 wires feeding it). Any new circuits you feed from your new panel need to be #12 for 20a circuit and #14 for a 15a circuit. Sorry for the criticism but I see you are a retired Sheriff and might have thicker skin than most people. Also, thank you for your service and if you need more help you can message me thru the site.

[DUX4LIFE]

Originally Posted by Vicr

As a professional electrician of 36 years could I offer my advice? Please hire an electrician to do the work. This is a long thread with various scenarios with few or none that comply with the NEC. Asking for electrical help on the internet is akin to asking medical advice on the internet, not a good idea. I can say a few things, yes you need a 50 amp main breaker (2 pole) at the new panel you're installing which will be fed from the power pedestal with a 6/4 SJOW cord, you need to feed your existing panel with a 30 amp single pole breaker (to protect the #10 wires feeding it). Any new circuits you feed from your new panel need to be #12 for 20a circuit and #14 for a 15a circuit. Sorry for the criticism but I see you are a retired Sheriff and might have thicker skin than most people. Also, thank you for your service and if you need more help you can message me thru the site.

Thanks for your suggestions. I had already planned on the 6 ga wire to the main, the 12 ga for the circuits. My question that was probably of concern was tying the original 10 ga 30 amp wire that goes from the FACTORY junction box without a new 30 amp breaker. I had planned on running that wire as a branch from the new box with a 30 amp breaker but was wondering:
1. The original wiring is a 30 amp cord from the pedestal to a junction block in the rear of the camper.
2. From there it joins a 10ga Romex and goes to the original breaker box.
3. Since there is no breaker between the original breaker and the pedestal(including the factory junction box) why would it be necessary to add one by routing it through another breaker in the new box?
4. Not arguing but not understanding the extra layer of protection from the additional 30 amp breaker other than the fact that there is a short run of 10 ga wire which would be protected by a 50 amp breaker when that part of the wiring (the 10 ga) is not rated for that 50 amp load. If that is the case then I understand why it would need to be run from the new box with its own properly sized breaker.
4a. I figured that the original breaker box could only draw 30 amps before tripping it's main breaker. Unless you have to figure in a potential short in the wire between the 30 amp breaker and the junction box along the 10 ga wire. if that was the case then I understand.
Again, I am not arguing but I am the type of person that just can't walk away without answers. I know I am not an electrician and the term "knowing enough to be dangerous" sometimes can be fitting. I do have a friend that is an electrician and has his own business, I usually run my decisions through him before I start but I like to have a plan in mind before I have to ask him about every detail. Either way when I get the details figured out I plan on approaching him with the details and getting his advice.

[newsleet]

I agree with vicr