Time for Some 2015 185RB Baja Repairs & Upgrades

[Charles in WV]

This is an N300.2 Norcold built in 2013 for a 2014 unit.
The website is for the info is MyRVWorks.com . There are links to all the stuff on there. He is also on YouTube.
Charles

[SkyBound]

Originally Posted by Bob K

When I first installed the LiFePO4 batteries, Battle Born told me that my existing WFCO 8735 charge controller, which is designed for lead acid batteries, would get the lithium batteries to somewhere around 80-90% SOC. That doesn't seem to be coming true so far. The operating voltages on the lithium batteries just seem to be too high to send the appropriate demand signal to the WFCO charge controller.

Over the course of two weeks on shore power (staying in trailer full-time), the 200 A-H battery bank SOC has slowly fallen from 65% and 13.16v.
Attachment 73415

I noticed on occasion, when most (or all) DC loads were off in the TT, the charge controller seemed to be putting a small float charge into the battery (.35a here). WFCO says the target float voltage is a nominal 13.6v and would remain there until load (i.e. demand current) reaches the charge controllers maximum output (which would normally occur with a discharged battery). I'm not sure yet why the lithium batteries aren't send a larger current demand to the charge controller.
Attachment 73416
Attachment 73420

For a test, I put a big load on the batteries for about 5 hours (-14.34A here) with the charge controller circuit breaker open (e.g. the charge controller can't see the batteries and isn't providing any output to the batts) to see what would happen.
Attachment 73417

The bank decreased to 31% SOC and 12.96v.
Attachment 73418

However, when I closed the charge controller circuit breaker (and removed most/all DC loads), the most the charge controller would output to the batteries was about 3-4 amps (perhaps Absorption mode from the charge controller?).
Attachment 73419

I let it run like this overnight. By late the next morning, the charge controller had increased the SOC to only 35% and 13.14v before dropping back to a very low charge current (.12A here), likely back in Float mode.
Attachment 73421

I have more testing to make sure this is normal behavior for a lead acid charge controller working on lithium batteries with their own onboard BMS. I had hoped that the WFCO 8735 would get them closer to the predicted 80-90% SOC, but it looks like I'm only going to get about 35%. In the meantime, the Victron BlueSmart charger does a fine job of charging the batteries up to full power when I need it. I plug it into an inside receptacle while I'm on shore power and connect it to the port I installed on the basement wall next to the batteries.

I am convinced that all the WFCO converters are crap. Definitely something that should be changed out or upgraded on any trailer, regardless if it has the original conventional battery or some sort of upgrade. Why do so many people have battery problems (not just with RVs)? The battery isn't getting what it wants/needs because the charger they are using is too dumb to ask it.

I am on year 7 with my Trojan T-105s and they are running strong. I also have batteries in my ATVs, lawn tractor, etc. and they are all 5+ years old (some nearing 10yr) and running strong as well. Why? They go on a battery tender for the winter, and when not being used for a while in the summer.

When it comes to RVs and batteries, Progressive Dynamics is the solution.

[Charles in WV]

Bob,
Smartest person I knew on lithium batteries is no longer around. He had a company called AAP in Va. He had his people building battery units in 2010 that would run AC units overnight and weighed practically nothing compared to my AGM's. Unfortunately, he passed away soon after that. The family kept it going for a while but it is gone now. Their primary business was outfitting custom buses and motor homes.
My background was an owner operator in trucking industry. I purchased some things from them for my road tractor. I always attended Mid America Trucking Show in Louisville each spring and their company was always a vendor. I also got to know a rep for Dometic that was in their booth a lot of times. AAP was a primary vendor for them. That said, I was always looking for ways to lighten the load in the tractor and still have home load capability to run air, heat, microwave, refrigerator, tv and satellite. 4 group 31 AGM's were a lot of weight. I finally went to an inverter generator to run all that.
I remember Bill telling me that they used higher capacity alternators and gensets to keep Lithium batteries up best. That was years ago but I am sure the science is still valid. Being that separate higher charging rates were needed. Best part of Lithium is that they don't drop voltage as they discharge till the end, so they were better suited for hotel loads. I would be interested to learn your findings.
Charles

[Charles in WV]

Bob,
Update on fridge. Today temps got to above 90° inside camper. I left it on 4 setting and it worked great. This morning at 0630 was 27° and -10 . When I left at noon it was 77° outside, 78° inside camper, fridge was 32° and freezer was -12°. Counter and both sides staying much cooler than before I did the work.
At 1900 it was a little warmer but still not bad. 85° outside and 92 inside camper from sun soak up. Fridge was 45°, freezer was 2°. The sun shines on fridge side in afternoon and evening. Counters and cabinet were about 90° and cabinet sides were 85°.
At 2045 it was 86° inside , 79° outside. Freezer was 2° and fridge 42°.
At 2330 it was 77° inside, 72° outside. Freezer was 0°, fridge 36°.
All these are while set at 4, not 5 as I used to have to do. So even if only 15% reduced it still leaves a cushion factor to increase cooling. Will smoke it tomorrow and see how it is lifting heat out. And next week may go ahead and install fan if I think I need to.
Charles

[Bob K]

Originally Posted by SkyBound

Why? They go on a battery tender for the winter, and when not being used for a while in the summer. When it comes to RVs and batteries, Progressive Dynamics is the solution.

Ditto. Every battery I own is on a BatteryMINDer.

WFCO just created a new WF-8735lis model for LiFePO4 batts, and PD has the PD4100 unit. Will be taking a look at these two.

https://wfcoelectronics.com/product/wf-8735lis/
https://www.progressivedyn.com/pd4100-series/

Because the lithium batts sit at a higher voltage, I'm discovering that the batteries, rather than the WF-8735, power the DC side of the trailer when I'm on shore power. The Victron SmartShunt shows the SOC dropping by about 2% per day. That means my batteries slowly deplete over time while on shore power. That's easy to work around by either flipping my newly installed battery disconnect circuit breaker, plugging in the Victron BlueSmart charger, or just letting the Victron Orion DC2DC charger top them off while I'm towing.

But to avoid all that (and because upgrading would be a good excuse to fix that Jayco rats nest of wires behind the power distribution center), I think I want to upgrade.

[Bob K]

Originally Posted by Charles in WV

Bob,
Update on fridge. Today temps got to above 90° inside camper. I left it on 4 setting and it worked great. This morning at 0630 was 27° and -10 . When I left at noon it was 77° outside, 78° inside camper, fridge was 32° and freezer was -12°. Counter and both sides staying much cooler than before I did the work.
At 1900 it was a little warmer but still not bad. 85° outside and 92 inside camper from sun soak up. Fridge was 45°, freezer was 2°. The sun shines on fridge side in afternoon and evening. Counters and cabinet were about 90° and cabinet sides were 85°.
At 2045 it was 86° inside , 79° outside. Freezer was 2° and fridge 42°.
At 2330 it was 77° inside, 72° outside. Freezer was 0°, fridge 36°.
All these are while set at 4, not 5 as I used to have to do. So even if only 15% reduced it still leaves a cushion factor to increase cooling. Will smoke it tomorrow and see how it is lifting heat out. And next week may go ahead and install fan if I think I need to.
Charles

I'm excited about your results. This sounds like a fantastic upgrade project for me later this year. I'm tired of the poor experience I've had with my fridge so far.

[Bob K]

Originally Posted by Charles in WV

Best part of Lithium is that they don't drop voltage as they discharge till the end, so they were better suited for hotel loads. I would be interested to learn your findings.
Charles

That's my experience so far and lines up with what I learned before installing them. A fully charged Battle Born LiFePO4 batt sits at 13.4v. Even under a 15-amp load and down at 31% SOC, the voltage didn't fall below 12.96 volts. (I grabbed this screencap right after removing the load, but the voltage was at 12.96v while under load.)

[Bob K]

Just finished up a 4,500-mile trip and the new battery system worked very nicely for powering the fridge with AC while underway.

I ditched the idea of running an extension cord from the portable inverter to the shore power cord. Too much trouble and fussing under the tub. Instead, I built a male-to-male cord and--please don't blow a tube when you hear this--backfed the AC receptacle circuit that the fridge is on. (This is common practice for home backup generators.)


That way, I only needed to flip one circuit breaker in the power distribution center (the fridge CB) in order to keep from backfeeding the remaining circuits and the exposed shore power plug. Standard, commonsense precautions observed: The inverter is fused far below the 15a that the AC circuit can handle, and we always plugged the cord into the receptacle before energizing it so that we didn't risk touching the energized plug terminals.

It works terrifically. On 100° days this summer and 5 hours of driving, the fridge still stays plenty cool (though it does seem to rise about 10° during that time). It recovers overnight to a cool temperature and regains the thermal mass to permit the next day's travel. Still can't determine if the fans I installed do any good.

My 200Ah battery bank can power the inverter for about 9 hours all by itself. The Victron DC2DC charger completely covers the load while underway.

There might be a permanently installed inverter at some point in the future so that I can skip the backfeed, but that's just not in the cards right now.

[Mikec557]

Originally Posted by Bob K

We just finished up a 4,500-mile trip and the new battery system worked very nicely for powering the fridge with AC while underway.

... My 200Ah battery bank can power the inverter for about 9 hours all by itself. The Victron DC2DC charger completely covers the load while underway...

Does this mean that the fridge, through the inverter, is drawing 22 amps (12v) per hour?
200Ah/9hr=22 amps per hour

[Bob K]

Originally Posted by Mikec557

Does this mean that the fridge, through the inverter, is drawing 22 amps (12v) per hour?
200Ah/9hr=22 amps per hour

Pretty close.

The fridge load is right around a constant 1.8 amps AC @ 120v measured with a clamp meter. That translates to 19.87 amps DC. Looks like the fridge needs right about 120v x 1.8a = 216 watts on paper.

https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tool...-inverter.html

20 amps x 9 hours = 180Ah so that I don't run the bank down to zero.

In actual use, the Victron SmartShunt seems to show about a 15-amp draw & 187 watts on the battery bank, so that'd get me closer to about 180/15 = 12 hours if I let it run on batts that long.

[Charles in WV]

Bob,
In my last semi I purchased new It had a battery disconnect that use a solenoid to open and close it. Sorta like a contactor for 12V. That way the current wouldn't draw down the 4 batteries that ran the tractor. It kept the AGMs charged from the alternator but disconnected them when truck wasn't running. I also used a 200 amp inverter to optionally run all my 120v loads. I may pull that out and use on mine when I upgrade to Lithium. The Silverado has that computer controlled voltage setup on the 160 amp alternator. It will raise to 14.5 when voltage drops on battery. I am wondering if it will keep the camper batts charged up while running. We can run inverter genset when we stop at night. I leave it under tonneau cover when we go and connected to a security cable. Easy to flip it back and leave genset in the truck bed when stopped. Don't even hear it sitting down in there.
Charles in WV

[Charles in WV]

Bob,
With the busy week I haven't updated on fridge. It is great.
I put 2 blue ice about 5x6x1-1/2 in fridge to simulate food load. I just chilled them to 33° before putting in there. Then put 1 in freezer frozen to -5°. I also have the Beech lane fan inside on bottom of fridge.
Temps outside have been 85-90° afternoon, 60-65° @ night since I insulated. Purposely let camper get to 95° inside couple days also.
Fridge on propane @ 5 setting has been running about 28° morning and 34° afternoon. Freezer -10°to -2°. The day I forced it hotter in camper it only got to 40° in fridge and 5° in freezer.
Lowered to 4-1/4 and fridge got 28° morning, 36° in afternoon and freezer was running-10° to -2°.
Switched to AC yesterday evening. This morning was 21° in fridge , -15 in freezer. Outside temp 56°, inside camper 58°. Turned it down to 3-1/2. See what it is doing mid afternoon.
Big change inside camper too. The cabinet side doesn't get above 95 directly beside door at counter height. And top around 80° 85° at most. Inside sink cabinet stays near camper inside temp. So not wasting any excess free heat that has to be removed by AC. And still no rear cooling fan. But you can feel convection in at bottom and out at top.
Charles in WV

[Bob K]

Originally Posted by Charles in WV

Bob,
In my last semi I purchased new It had a battery disconnect that use a solenoid to open and close it. Sorta like a contactor for 12V. That way the current wouldn't draw down the 4 batteries that ran the tractor. It kept the AGMs charged from the alternator but disconnected them when truck wasn't running. I also used a 200 amp inverter to optionally run all my 120v loads. I may pull that out and use on mine when I upgrade to Lithium. The Silverado has that computer controlled voltage setup on the 160 amp alternator. It will raise to 14.5 when voltage drops on battery. I am wondering if it will keep the camper batts charged up while running. We can run inverter genset when we stop at night. I leave it under tonneau cover when we go and connected to a security cable. Easy to flip it back and leave genset in the truck bed when stopped. Don't even hear it sitting down in there.
Charles in WV

In my experience, the smart alternators aren't capable of keeping trailer batts charged. As soon as the TV starter batt is recharged, it stops outputting the higher voltage necessary to charge the trailer batts through the trailer cable. I only saw 2 amps DC on my 2017 Tacoma. That's why I installed the Victron Orion DC to DC charger: It "fools" the smart alternator into continuing to output useful voltage and current for the trailer batts and limits the load on the smart alternator to a safe level so that it doesn't let out the magic smoke.

[Charles in WV]

Bob, thanks for the feedback on the alternator. I think the GM ones use no internal regulator at all so the computer is feeding the field current to it. I also thought of putting another alternator on it so as to run 2, one for the tow vehicle and one for the camper. But that is a harder job. Lol
Charles in WV

[Bob K]

Originally Posted by Charles in WV

Bob, thanks for the feedback on the alternator. I think the GM ones use no internal regulator at all so the computer is feeding the field current to it. I also thought of putting another alternator on it so as to run 2, one for the tow vehicle and one for the camper. But that is a harder job. Lol
Charles in WV

A DC to DC charger (Victron, Renogy, etc.) ought to solve your problem quite cleanly, and for about the same price as a second high-output alternator.

https://www.amazon.com/VICTRON-ORION.../dp/B07D5N3XSS

[Charles in WV]

Ok, I will check that out. Thanks for the info.

Sitting out under the camper awning having a couple cold, cold ones from the fridge. Just making sure it works great. And it does.

Charles in WV

[Bob K]

I put a SEAFLO accumulator in the little trailer today. While the ShurFlo water pump that I have (#4008-101-A65) is supposed to have a bypass valve that smooths out operation and makes an accumulator unnecessary, I still had water flow pulsations and the pump would cycle rapidly when a service point was at low flow. I noticed this a lot with my Oxygenics shower head with the "shutoff" valve. For safety reasons, the "shutoff" valve doesn't completely shut off the water. Rather, the "shutoff" valve reduces the flow to a small pencil-sized dribble. That caused the water pump to cycle about every 2-3 seconds.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MVA6GCC


The cut-in pressure for my water pump is 40 psi, so I set the accumulator for 37 psi and it does what it says: Smooths out water flow and keeps the pump from cycling so often.

Jayco has quite the hodgepodge of water system connectors, tubing, and fasteners. I think the PEX clamps used to attach the white water hose to fittings are 5/8" clamps. The 1/2" PEX clamps are just too small for the white hose. Cinch clamps and PEX clamps are like hen's teeth around here during irrigation season, so I bought this cinch clamp variety kit and it contained a size that worked nicely.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07121VY67


By the way, I had the chance to look down inside that length of white water hose that runs from the pump down to the water lines. Yuck! That got cleaned up with a long brush and I need to do a thorough water system cleaning. Not sure if that gunk was from me over the last year or from the PO. Either way, yuck!

[Bob K]

I've been having tank sensor issues and some concerns about clogs in the black tank, so I bought a sewer jetter kit to use with my pressure washer. Boy, it works slick!

Bought a 90° elbow and drilled/ground an access hole in it.


There are 50 different varieties of sewer jetter kits on Amazon. This is the one I purchased: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08TMD33Y1
I used the Button Nose Nozzle for this cleanout. Might try the rotating nozzle next time.


The jetter easily pulled itself forward even through two 90° turns and all the way to the back of the tank. The hose is pliable enough to turn corners but stiff enough to twist in order to help it through the bends or into a different part of the tank.

My black tank didn't have much in it but I was able to get some struvite off the walls of the tank. My grey tank was much dirtier than I expected. All sensors appear to be working now. For $40, I'd say it's a no-brainer purchase for keeping the tanks clean if one has a pressure washer. It's easy enough for me to do at least once per year, especially if I have sensor issues or think I have clogs.

I bought some Unique RV Digest-It additive. I previously used Camco's TST Ultra-Concentrate Orange additive but want to see if a bacterial additive will do a better job of eating and liquefying everything in the tanks.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07564FPHL

[Bob K]

Well, not all upgrades go smoothly.

I wanted to install a fresh water fill port with a locking cap to go from this...


...to this.


I did a terrible job of verifying measurements before I began disassembly. The ribbed fill tube from the fill port to the freshwater tank was completely sealed with caulking, so I damaged the fill port and fill tube while removing it.


It turns out that all of the locking caps on the market--at least the ones I've found so far--are standardized with the larger 1 5/8" barbed connection whereas the freshwater tank fill tube is 1 1/4". On top of that, the locking fill port is much deeper in order to accommodate the locking mechanism. My little 185RB just doesn't have the room for an adapter and connection between the new fill port and existing freshwater tank fill tube.


I'm unable to find a blind-install bulkhead fitting designed for potable water, so I can't make a new hole in the freshwater tank. Anyone have suggestions for making this work? The only option I see is to cut a higher hole in the trailer wall to make more room and I don't think I'm willing to do that.

So here I wait, unable to escape into the Rockies, until replacement parts show up in the mail to put it back exactly the way it was. If nothing else, I learned once again what happens when I don't slow down and plan appropriately.

[Charles in WV]

Bob,
More update on gas fridge. We took 9 day trip to bluegrass festival end of July and returned Aug. 9. Fridge worked good for 4 days then crashed again. I am convinced it has been overheated by previous owner which crystallizes the chromium rust inhibitor inside system. Couldn't get it to work till after the ride home. (200+ miles) Hooked it up and it took a entire day to cool. And still not as good as before.
I contacted Truckfridge in Georgetown KY and they had a T130 4.4cu ft 12v/120v that will fit into cabinet in trailer. All active electrical is in top rear right if facing front. Got it for $983 including tax. We drove to get it 2 days ago and it is sitting in basement waiting to get installed. Attached are pictures. It is an Indel B design from Italy. Gonna go with solar and Lithium now to beef up the power after installing.
Charles in WV