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07-15-2015, 06:37 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bremerton
Posts: 342
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Electrical @#$%^
My trailer has been stored by the house with shore power plugged in, but the battery fuse pulled.
I turned on the frig in auto mode and it started just fine. An hour later when I go out to install the battery fuse I notice that there is no power to the frig. I install the fuse and all power in the trailer comes on and the frig starts in gas mode.
I investigate to discover that the GFI inside my garage powering the circuit for the trailer had tripped.
I know the frig electronics runs off of 12V power, but is it by design that the frig will only run off of battery power, vice 12V converter power?
frig is up and running on 120V power now and all is well. It just makes me wonder.
Tim
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07-15-2015, 06:42 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Where ever the boss says we're going.
Posts: 16,121
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If the GFI hadn't tripped all would have been fine, when the GFI tripped in the garage you lost power to the converter. The converter or battery will supply the necessary 12 v. What caused the GFI to trip?
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DISNEY LOVERS
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07-15-2015, 06:43 PM
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#3
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Site Team
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: James Island, SC
Posts: 22,861
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The control circuit is 12v DC. No matter if it is on gas or electric.
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07-15-2015, 06:51 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sparta, TN
Posts: 1,174
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GFI circuits usually do not get along with campers very well. It has to do with ground bonding in the camper. GFI's don't tolerate it very well. Sometimes you can get away with it. Sometimes not. Looks like you found the 'not'.
Best thing to do is install a dedicated, non-GFI 30 amp circuit and receptacle on your garage.
Do not confuse this with the GFI circuit that is part of the camper itself. That is NOT the GFI I am referring to.
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Chuck - Sparta, TN
2012 Jay Flight 22FB, 2 x Honda EU2000i
2013 GMC Yukon XL Denali AWD
EDUCATION is what you get when you read the fine print.....
EXPERIENCE is what you get when you don't.
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07-15-2015, 07:42 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norty1
The control circuit is 12v DC. No matter if it is on gas or electric.
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X2
GFI's trip all the time especially in areas with high moisture. If it trips again replace the outlet.
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07-15-2015, 07:57 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bremerton
Posts: 342
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This is the second time this has happened to me. The frig won't work unless the battery is connected. I had assumed that the converter would provide sufficient 12V power to the electronics, but apparently not.
I will have to research how much power the frig electronics draw.
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07-15-2015, 08:44 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Missouri City, The Republic of Texas
Posts: 5,063
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Tjp, these guys are pros. I agree that the GFCI is probably not liking your TT. The fridge draws little power on 12v/propane. If it's feasible I'd leave the batt connected. It'll charge and take over if the A/C fails. Downside is you need to check on the breaker frequently to make sure things are good. That said, I plug the 5th and it's predecessor into a GFCI circuit with no problems, just no AC.
There's a chance your 120v heater in the fridge has a problem and is tripping the breaker. Try another circuit (non GFCI) to verify.
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2013 F-350 CC SB 2WD 6.7PS
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07-15-2015, 09:00 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,784
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Question, why pull the battery fuse, when at home connected to shore power?
The converter will power the frig controls when operating on propane, along with all the other 12v electronics.
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07-16-2015, 04:24 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sparta, TN
Posts: 1,174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjpolsin
This is the second time this has happened to me. The frig won't work unless the battery is connected. I had assumed that the converter would provide sufficient 12V power to the electronics, but apparently not.
I will have to research how much power the frig electronics draw.
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If everything is working correctly the converter WILL power the refrigerator control electronics. If it is not doing so now you still have a problem that needs to be found. The refrigerator electronics draws very little power. Your problem will not be there.
__________________
Chuck - Sparta, TN
2012 Jay Flight 22FB, 2 x Honda EU2000i
2013 GMC Yukon XL Denali AWD
EDUCATION is what you get when you read the fine print.....
EXPERIENCE is what you get when you don't.
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07-16-2015, 05:10 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Upperco, Md.
Posts: 807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjpolsin
This is the second time this has happened to me. The frig won't work unless the battery is connected. I had assumed that the converter would provide sufficient 12V power to the electronics, but apparently not.
I will have to research how much power the frig electronics draw.
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I am assuming that GFI had tripped both times. GFI's are very fickle. Like some others have said, get on a non GFI curcuit. GFI's are not a reliable source of power.
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07-16-2015, 08:45 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bremerton
Posts: 342
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All,
The GFI tripped again this am and the frig was back on propane. I am still not convinced that the GFI is the culprit. I have plugged the trailer into the same GFI protected 20amp ckt for the past 7 years and have operated all appliances without issues. (microwave and AC never got operated at the same time). Additionally, that GFI also protects all of my garage ckts (table saw, drill press, etc) with never an issue.
The ONLY thing I changed in the past year when this started was the addition of a 12v fan for the frig. As recommended by the vendor, I tapped the power by from the frig ckt board 12v power supply. After I reset the GFI, I turned off the fan. I will check later to see if it trips again.
After that, the only item left is a possible short or ground on the 120V frig heater (not wishing for this root cause).
As for pulling the battery fuse, I didn't want to keep my brand new 6v batteries on constant charge from the trailer converter while the trailer was connected to shore power.
I sent a message to Jayco to see if their techs have an answer.
Thanks for all your help and suggestions.
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07-16-2015, 09:14 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Missouri City, The Republic of Texas
Posts: 5,063
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Check to see if the breaker will trip with the fridge on propane. Your idea of a fault in the 120V heater may be correct (unfortunately). Not sure how to trouble shoot that other than to look for a short.
Anybody: is the heating element serviceable?
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T_
2013 F-350 CC SB 2WD 6.7PS
2013 Eagle Premier 351 RLTS
-SOLD- 2012 X23B
-SOLD- 2003 Ford Expedition 5.4, Bilstein shocks
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07-16-2015, 09:19 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Campbell Hall
Posts: 2,835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHorse1
Anybody: is the heating element serviceable?
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The Norcold parts manuals I've seen show it as a separate item. So it probably is.
You'll have to disconnect both sides of the element from the control board and test for continuity to ground. Should be infinite ohms.
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TT 2015 19RD "TheJayco"
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07-16-2015, 06:03 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bremerton
Posts: 342
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(drum roll please)
And the culprit was - the 12v accessory fan I added to the frig! No issues since I turned off that fan. the frig has been running on 120V since about 6am.
Thanks everyone for the advice
Tim
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07-16-2015, 06:40 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Upperco, Md.
Posts: 807
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As for pulling the battery fuse, I didn't want to keep my brand new 6v batteries on constant charge from the trailer converter while the trailer was connected to shore power
Thanks for all your help and suggestions.[/QUOTE]
Why would you not want to keep your batteries fully charged assuming that you have a multistage converter?? Everything that I have read says that this keeps your batteries at there best without overcharging. Disconnecting would certainly be the thing to do if you weren't hooked to shore power. If hooked to shore power, I would think that you would want your batteries getting the benefit of your smart converter.
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07-16-2015, 06:43 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Missouri City, The Republic of Texas
Posts: 5,063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjpolsin
(drum roll please)
And the culprit was - the 12v accessory fan I added to the frig! No issues since I turned off that fan. the frig has been running on 120V since about 6am.
Thanks everyone for the advice
Tim
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YATZEE! Congrats on the discovery. Seems odd that a 12v source would trip the GFCI. Would expect a fuse to burn out first. Double check where you tapped into the power for it.
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T_
2013 F-350 CC SB 2WD 6.7PS
2013 Eagle Premier 351 RLTS
-SOLD- 2012 X23B
-SOLD- 2003 Ford Expedition 5.4, Bilstein shocks
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07-16-2015, 07:25 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sparta, TN
Posts: 1,174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjpolsin
(drum roll please)
And the culprit was - the 12v accessory fan I added to the frig! No issues since I turned off that fan. the frig has been running on 120V since about 6am.
Thanks everyone for the advice
Tim
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I don't mean to rain on your parade but I don't think you have seen the end of this issue yet. I do not believe for a minute the fan mod is affecting the GFI. There is no connection between the GFI system and the 12 volt system.
Please let us know if the problem re-occurs.
__________________
Chuck - Sparta, TN
2012 Jay Flight 22FB, 2 x Honda EU2000i
2013 GMC Yukon XL Denali AWD
EDUCATION is what you get when you read the fine print.....
EXPERIENCE is what you get when you don't.
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07-16-2015, 09:35 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bremerton
Posts: 342
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Here is where I tapped my 12v power. the little piece of stub wire was just fill in the rest of the crimp connector.
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07-20-2015, 07:10 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Campbell Hall
Posts: 2,835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnchuck100
I don't mean to rain on your parade but I don't think you have seen the end of this issue yet. I do not believe for a minute the fan mod is affecting the GFI. There is no connection between the GFI system and the 12 volt system.
Please let us know if the problem re-occurs.
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I will argue "There is no connection between the GFI system and the 12 volt system."
All 3 electrical systems share a common ground. 12VDC negative is connected to 120VAC ground. So the converter's 12V+ is routed through the fan to 12DC- (ground) and the GFCI sees that flow as a ground fault.
Why the rest of the factory 12VDC items don't trip an external GFCI is beyond me.
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TT 2015 19RD "TheJayco"
TV 2003 F-350 "Montblanc" - Housebroken chore truck
Sitting in The Cheap Seats.
And proud of it!
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