I Am Sorry, But . . .

[Midnightmoon]

Originally Posted by Woodworker

It's out there but the manufacturers won't cough it up at any price

This conversation reminds me of a guy that I know from locally here. He was one of my teacher's in HS and I was close friends with his daughter. He and ran a small greenhouse/nursery on the side in conjunction with his teaching job. Anyway, back in the '87, he came to school with a brand new red F150 long bed. Next thing you know, he had a '89, then an '91, '93, '95, etc. Even after he retired, every 2 years he has a shiny new truck (he's switched to 3/4 tons now). I just ran in to him a few weeks ago at McDonald's on my way to work and sure enough, new Red Ford.

I've never asked him if he buys or leases those trucks. I guess it doesn't matter. But, I guarantee you he has never lost a night's sleep over a broken down vehicle, worrying on how to fix it, or how to make his current one last. He simply has made the choice to pay for the use of a new vehicle as part of his daily life. I imagine that if you looked at the dollar and cent part of it, he has wasted a ton of money compared to if he had kept his vehicles until they were completely worn out. But, i also don't think that he has lost a day of work or the ability to do something that needed to be done to a broken down vehicle.

I'm starting to think that this is exactly the model that the manufacturers want you do follow. Buy or lease, treat it like a rental, and start over again in 2-3 years. The vehicle design itself, with all of the complex electronics and systems don't lend themselves to being a lifetime vehicle, especially when the cost of maintenance at dealership prices is so high.

[Midnightmoon]

Originally Posted by RollingDownTheHighway

It's just money, enjoy it while you can and have fun making memories with the kids, grandkids, etc. Life is too short to worry about the small things these days

I really like this statement. Good advice for someone like me.

[jloco]

All said and done after my complaining, I still ended up buying a new 2017 Silverado last year. Sticker of $52, but paid $42 after an exhaustive hour of haggling.. there's a lot of leeway from the ridiculous sticker. Between a fair trade value for my 08 Tacoma, and reduction off sticker, I left happy, but man, they made me work for it!!

[bdreinv]

Rock Auto does not post there phone on there web site any more but they still answer 608-661-1376.My truck is 12 years old have no intentions of selling.But a scrap yard may be another place to look!

[Woodworker]

Originally Posted by Midnightmoon

This conversation reminds me of a guy that I know from locally here. He was one of my teacher's in HS and I was close friends with his daughter. He and ran a small greenhouse/nursery on the side in conjunction with his teaching job. Anyway, back in the '87, he came to school with a brand new red F150 long bed. Next thing you know, he had a '89, then an '91, '93, '95, etc. Even after he retired, every 2 years he has a shiny new truck (he's switched to 3/4 tons now). I just ran in to him a few weeks ago at McDonald's on my way to work and sure enough, new Red Ford.

I've never asked him if he buys or leases those trucks. I guess it doesn't matter. But, I guarantee you he has never lost a night's sleep over a broken down vehicle, worrying on how to fix it, or how to make his current one last. He simply has made the choice to pay for the use of a new vehicle as part of his daily life. I imagine that if you looked at the dollar and cent part of it, he has wasted a ton of money compared to if he had kept his vehicles until they were completely worn out. But, i also don't think that he has lost a day of work or the ability to do something that needed to be done to a broken down vehicle.

I'm starting to think that this is exactly the model that the manufacturers want you do follow. Buy or lease, treat it like a rental, and start over again in 2-3 years. The vehicle design itself, with all of the complex electronics and systems don't lend themselves to being a lifetime vehicle, especially when the cost of maintenance at dealership prices is so high.

My neighbor used to get a new truck every year or yr amd a half. Walk out owing 4, 5 or 6 thousand dollars. He got a good start though. His kids bought him a new truck so he started out with a good trade in. Dealt with the same dealer every year so he was getting great, if you want to call it that deals. I believe his last truck was around $58,000, he got them down to around $48,000 and got $42,000 for his trade. He paid it off shortly there after. Dealers get a premium for a year old truck with low mileage so everybody made out.

[vcbice]

Overpriced? Not really. Most of it is called inflation. The value of a dollar is more than ten times less than it was back when you were a kid.

Add in reliability and capability of new vehicles. Back 'in the old days' a vehicle needed a minor tune up every few thousand miles. Major tuneup (carb cleaning overhaul, plugs, points) every 10k miles. Depending on use, a clutch replacement at 50k. New valves at about 70k miles. Many needed full overhauls somewhere between 100k and 200k miles. Tires were good for 25k miles if you were lucky.

New vehicles? Change the fluids and filters is all they need for over 100k miles. Tires routinely last over 50k miles.

This does not even take into effect the increased capabilities. More power and load capacities. Brakes alone are so much more capable that it makes the difference all by itself. Handling is also so much better comparisons are like apples and oranges.

Nope, I do not want the 'good old days'.

FWIW, you do not have to pay for all that 'stuff'. We just bought our F250. Under $40k (I think MSRP was just over $50k). Low end diesel. Not even any carpet. Simple radio with CD player. Yes, the dealers will steer you to the 'loaded' trucks. $20k worth of 'stuff'. Don't buy it if you don't want it.

[JeremyFr]

We love our 16 F150, it was built to be a fleet truck but never made it to fleet use, so it doesn't have all the junk that robs you of payload. Got a screaming deal on it to (30k) and it's a S-Crew, 3.5L EB, 6.5' bed, full fleet HD towing package. Doesn't have any of the stuff we don't need like sunroof, touchscreen, etc.

[LeeWilli]

New stuff IS too spendy. Stickin' with my 2005 Sienna. Pulls a Hummingbird just fine (if not too fast--sorry left-laners). But hey, thanks for the Hag tune. I totally forgot about that gem, and I sing the stuff. Drive the Ram.

[Dave A]

I'm sitting here remembering the good old days. If you could you got rid of your vehicle at 100,000 miles cause it was wore out. Probably had a valve job or two, replaced the exhaust system a few times and remember drum brakes!


My 1 ton, crew cab dually gets better fuel mileage than most cars did back then. Goes a lot of miles between services, pulls anything I hook it to and is so darn comfortable. Yes, it cost a lot and I'm glad to have it.

[Midnightmoon]

It is about 90 degrees in the building where I am working today. I'm so looking forward to hitting the remote start on my new truck and having the cab cool when I go out this afternoon.

There are lots of options that I wasn't looking for when I bought this new one. But these new features have a way of spoiling you.

[MandMinNC]

(Long time lurker, only 2-time poster, but we pick up our TT this Saturday, so that may change soon! We are so excited!)

This conversation really struck a chord with me. My first car was a 1978 Ford Fairmont, bought (used, obviously) in 1985. Man, the things I went through with that car make for great memories now, but I wouldn't go back to the "good old days" with that car for anything! AM radio, no AC, a big poof of smoke when I turned it on, a 2-minute sputter after turning it off, 10 MPG, 0-60 in 15 minutes.... It was the very definition of planned obsolescence.

We bought our 2014 F150 FX4 last summer for the sole purpose of towing our future TT. We spend weeks going to every dealership within a 70-ish mile radius (we live in a small town in the mountains) looking for a slightly used (and therefore not too expensive) F150. They were rare! We stumbled on this one by chance - the dealership had literally just taken it in as a trade earlier that day, and they still needed to clean it; the interior was dirty during our test drive. Ha! We bought it right away (but didn't bring it home because they promised to detail it) because we knew we were unlikely to find another one like it. We paid $30,000 out the door.

And man, we LOVE it! It is HUGE on the inside - our 5-year-old, who has ridiculously long legs, rarely kicks the back of the seat anymore. The air-conditioned seats are awesome. We routinely go 10-15K between oil changes. It is the best vehicle we have ever bought.

Incidentally, the car we traded in (sort of, given that we got almost no money for it) was a 1996 Honda Odessey with (literally!) 452,000 miles on it. We can only hope the F150 gets more than half that many miles!

On Saturday we are picking up our new TT (2018 Jay Flight 324BSD) It will be our first test pulling anything with the F150. The numbers indicate that it should be fine - our capacity is well above the GVW of the TT.

[ctbailey]

The prices seem high for sure, but someone smarter than me could explain to use the concept of inflation, and how a corvette in 1977 cost $7,000.


The real concern I have is how all the gadgets like automatic trailer back-up and all the cameras in the grill, the tailgate, and on the ball hitch are rendering thousands of pickup drivers without any real experience.


And now we're seeing travel trailers with automatic sway control.


And TrailerLife runs ads for motors to allow you to "back" your trailer with a remote control using electric wheel motors.


This thread is about expensive trucks. My point is the main expense in these highway trucks is making us worse drivers.

[gypsmjim]

"The good 'ole days weren't all that good" (paraphrased) was a song lyric.

Dad always bought new cars. First they had to be rustproofed and we had to lay down papers in the garage to collect all the drying goo. Second, Mom would make up a notebook so we could jot down the defects to give to the dealer after the 1000 mile breakin oil was changed. In contrast my 2011 Chevy never had one trip back. The tires lasted 55,000 miles and the brakes 92,000. We can drive a car for many years and many miles, while dad would trade in every 5 years or so because by then they would be all rusted apart.

Cost wise, my 1970 Chevy cost 39% of my annual salary, my 1980 Pontiac cost 30% of my annual salary, my 2011 Chevy cost 26% of my annual salary. A comparable 2018 Chevy would now run me about 31% of my income, but that's retirement income.

No - all in all we are much better off now than we ever were before. Plus, the cars are immensely better, the cost is proportionately lower, they last longer, are safer and thus a better value.

PS - I would NEVER own a F150 as long as a Silverado were available, at any cost.

[Cranetech]

As long as people keep paying the price will keep going up. Credit is too easy to get over long terms to make it “affordable “ remember 2008?

[kblast523]

I traded a 2009 Ford Flex with 88k in September 2015 for a 'bulk build' 2015 F150 Supercrew listing at $44,608. They allowed $10,000 trade (that vehicle listed for $36,400) off the pre-negotiated price of $31,200. That's right, $13,408 off list. When we got to the finance table, got a $750 suprize, in my FAVOR! More rebates! Seems they had 149 similar trucks on the lot and were year ending them before the 2016 came out. By the end of the week, they showed on-line inventory of 45 vehicles, so LOTS of people were buying them.
Bill Knight Ford, Tulsa beat Vernon Ford by $500. Vernon Ford beat Gene Messer (Amarillo) by $300. I used some of my 'bonus' to provide myself with extended (100,000) bumper to bumper. Great truck, watch your dealers. Glad I didn't buy from Messer.

[Cheaperrooter]

I’m not a Ford man so I’m not familiar with the prices. But all I can say is that kind of money for an F150 sounds absolutely absurd to me. I have been a GM man for well over 15 years now and the 15 before was a Ford man.

Running a service business I can tell you the only thing I will ever buy is a Silverado 2500 and we always get crew cabs and we always get 4 x 4. The GM 1500 is equal to the F150, the 2500, F250, and the 3500 then F350. I only get crew cab 4 x 4 and not because they are needed in my business, they are not, but because come resale time I command a fortune for these trucks and it STILL blows my mind that I can sell them for $20,000-$25,000 with that kind of mileage, which was 2/3 of the original sticker!!!!

If you’re really telling me an F150 cost that much, something is not right because I can get a brand new 2500 crew cab 4 x 4 (F-250) for MUCH less than that. Like around $38,000-$42,000

I finally upgraded to a 3500 Duramax Turbo Diesel crew cab 4 x 4 single rear wheel (for me personally) and out the door was 52k! And that’s 10 times the truck as an F150. I suspect you’re looking at their top-of-the-line models that have more gadgets and crap than I ever care to use.

I will tell you that Chevrolet offers a WT model (work truck) and that’s perfect for me and sounds like exactly what you need as well. The EXACT same vehicle mechanically without all of the additional $10,000 - $15,000 worth of “plush”.

It’s a “toned down” interior with the rubber mats versus carpet.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s got power everything where I want it and need it, like windows and locks and has the camera in the tailgate and it’s still a gorgeous truck. But you save a FORTUNE by not getting all of the gizmos and useless gadgets that I don’t want nor need that they charge you an extra $15,000 for!

These trucks are also absolutely bullet proof and I can tell you out of the 14 Silverado’s I have purchased for my business in the last 15 years, and I am not lying to anybody, and I’m not an under cover Chevrolet man trying to promote their products, I have not ONCE EVER had to bring those trucks in for ANY kind of issue whatsoever for the first 125k miles. Nothing. Nada. Not brakes not anything whatsoever!!!! I don’t know about you but I consider that absolutely phenomenal. 125k is when I sell and buy new so I cannot vouch for anything after that.

Keep in mind these are service vehicles which are used and abused by most employees and are not taken care of in a tender fashion whatsoever for sure.

I do not know if Ford has the same quality or not as I say I am ignorant about their brand of trucks. So to answer your question in a long winded manner, are they worth it? As far as Silverados are concerned, I think so, at the “right price”, not what you are thinking of spending for an F150!

But the trucks of today can’t even compare to the trucks of yesterday and getting 250,000 miles is not a rarity anymore and you couldn’t dream of that kind of mileage in the older trucks without having to have done an engine and tranny rebuild!

I take that back. The only time they have seen the inside of the dealership was when there was a safety recall. But I mean not even needing a brake job when we are towing heavy equipment and trailers with some of them? That’s just absolutely phenomenal to me and if you ever looked at the brake pads on the 2500 you would understand they are as thick as the phonebook!!!

Anyway that’s sounds VERY overpriced to me as the equivalent is a 1500 and I buy those all day for $30,000, nicely dressed, in the V-6 which shockingly you cannot tell the difference between it and an V-8 but much better gas mileage.

Yes I know I said I only buy 2500s LOL, but a couple years ago I opened up a separate business and bought three of the 1500s with the V6.

Anyway I would recommend asking if Ford makes the equivalent of the work truck model like Chevy does and if not, I would cross the street and seriously consider a Silverado

[kblast523]

For 2018 Ford F-150 XL SuperCrew 3.3l v-6 auto with 4wd starts at $37,504.
The 2018 F-250 XL SuperCrew 6.2l auto with 4wd starts at $43,015
The more 'frosting' you put on- or in this case 'in' the cake, the more you can 'scrape off'. Base F-150 conventional cab 6.5 ft bed starts at $27,702, advertised locally for $22,800. In the Dallas area you could probably acquire this truck for about $21,000.

[RetiredLEO]

My Dad had a livestock feed store in the 1960's- 1980's 3/4 ton p/u's were our work truck. Had to have them. In the 70's was really the last decade that we could buy a 3/4 for a reasonable price. Then in the 80's the pickup craze hit and the prices began to skyrocket. Dad blamed it on the city folks for whom most didn't really have a need for them in reality but had to have them. Needless to say Dad operating on a 3% margin and carrying producers for their bills wiped him out. If we were still in business there is no way we would be able to afford a new 3/4 ton every three years or four years. The price of pick-ups have gone out of control. The average person who needs one for work or has another need for one can't afford it. I can guarantee the guy who buys a $60-70K P/U has never loaded it full of lumber and tools or bags of feed. It's become a symbol of wealth and for most it's "all hat, no cattle"
Rant over

[LeeWilli]

To be totally honest and transparent, I do have a 2016 Sorento that's rated to tow the equivalent of 2 hummingbirds, and yes, the new stuff is nice, especially the muscle and the braking system.



I do still like the Sienna on the midwest flatland, though.


Haggard Forever!

[RetiredLEO]

Originally Posted by Cheaperrooter

I’m not a Ford man so I’m not familiar with the prices. But all I can say is that kind of money for an F150 sounds absolutely absurd to me. I have been a GM man for well over 15 years now and the 15 before was a Ford man.

Running a service business I can tell you the only thing I will ever buy is a Silverado 2500 and we always get crew cabs and we always get 4 x 4. The GM 1500 is equal to the F150, the 2500, F250, and the 3500 then F350. I only get crew cab 4 x 4 and not because they are needed in my business, they are not, but because come resale time I command a fortune for these trucks and it STILL blows my mind that I can sell them for $20,000-$25,000 with that kind of mileage, which was 2/3 of the original sticker!!!!

If you’re really telling me an F150 cost that much, something is not right because I can get a brand new 2500 crew cab 4 x 4 (F-250) for MUCH less than that. Like around $38,000-$42,000

I finally upgraded to a 3500 Duramax Turbo Diesel crew cab 4 x 4 single rear wheel (for me personally) and out the door was 52k! And that’s 10 times the truck as an F150. I suspect you’re looking at their top-of-the-line models that have more gadgets and crap than I ever care to use.

I will tell you that Chevrolet offers a WT model (work truck) and that’s perfect for me and sounds like exactly what you need as well. The EXACT same vehicle mechanically without all of the additional $10,000 - $15,000 worth of “plush”.

It’s a “toned down” interior with the rubber mats versus carpet.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s got power everything where I want it and need it, like windows and locks and has the camera in the tailgate and it’s still a gorgeous truck. But you save a FORTUNE by not getting all of the gizmos and useless gadgets that I don’t want nor need that they charge you an extra $15,000 for!

These trucks are also absolutely bullet proof and I can tell you out of the 14 Silverado’s I have purchased for my business in the last 15 years, and I am not lying to anybody, and I’m not an under cover Chevrolet man trying to promote their products, I have not ONCE EVER had to bring those trucks in for ANY kind of issue whatsoever for the first 125k miles. Nothing. Nada. Not brakes not anything whatsoever!!!! I don’t know about you but I consider that absolutely phenomenal. 125k is when I sell and buy new so I cannot vouch for anything after that.

Keep in mind these are service vehicles which are used and abused by most employees and are not taken care of in a tender fashion whatsoever for sure.

I do not know if Ford has the same quality or not as I say I am ignorant about their brand of trucks. So to answer your question in a long winded manner, are they worth it? As far as Silverados are concerned, I think so, at the “right price”, not what you are thinking of spending for an F150!

But the trucks of today can’t even compare to the trucks of yesterday and getting 250,000 miles is not a rarity anymore and you couldn’t dream of that kind of mileage in the older trucks without having to have done an engine and tranny rebuild!

I take that back. The only time they have seen the inside of the dealership was when there was a safety recall. But I mean not even needing a brake job when we are towing heavy equipment and trailers with some of them? That’s just absolutely phenomenal to me and if you ever looked at the brake pads on the 2500 you would understand they are as thick as the phonebook!!!

Anyway that’s sounds VERY overpriced to me as the equivalent is a 1500 and I buy those all day for $30,000, nicely dressed, in the V-6 which shockingly you cannot tell the difference between it and an V-8 but much better gas mileage.

Yes I know I said I only buy 2500s LOL, but a couple years ago I opened up a separate business and bought three of the 1500s with the V6.

Anyway I would recommend asking if Ford makes the equivalent of the work truck model like Chevy does and if not, I would cross the street and seriously consider a Silverado

What you said is so very true. The trucks of today are modern marvels compared to the trucks of yesteryear. ALTHOUGH that Chevy 350 engine was a heck of a engine
We really don't need all the extra's but have been brain washed that we got to have all the whiz-bang electronics to pacify us like a herd of one year olds. I guess if you can afford all the fluff..........good for you. It doesn't make it a better truck...............just more enjoyable. I remember being happy to finally get a P/U with A.C. and a AM/FM radio...............Dad really splurged one year and ordered one with a 8 track! Wow!!! Dad almost considered it too fancy to take it out on the gravels

I hate to dream what the price of a new truck will be in 3 years.