Lawsuit for Dealer Selling too heavy TT for TV

[JimG010462]

The issue is about trust. If I can’t trust a RV dealer then why would you buy from them? Why would you trust that they sold you a good part? If I can’t trust the brand then I shouldn’t buy from them.

[Jopopsy]

Originally Posted by Midnightmoon

I have not heard of a lawsuit specifically against a dealer for this practice. But, I can tell you that it happens all of the time. In all of my years of owning rv trailers and owning diesel trucks, I've heard the "your truck can pull anything I've got on the lot" line dozens of times.

There are even dealers that will "modify" vehicles to tow a larger trailer than what the manufacturers recommendations would be in order to make a sale. I'm not going to get in to the specifics of that one, but when I owned an Airstream and would participate in their forum, I would read of it all the time. Again, I don't know of any specific lawsuit or case regarding that situation, just noting that it goes on in this industry.

Unfortunately, many people who rush in to impulse buys or don't do their research before hand fall trap to these games.

This is off topic, so I apologize; I'm not sure how to break this out into a new thread w/o putting your name in the title. But - why did you leave Airstream if I might ask? Most people on the AS forums worked their way up from SOB (some other brand for those of us not familiar w/ AS parlance) to an Airstream, yet you went the other way.

I had considered asking you this as a PM, but then the rest of the forum wouldn't benefit from your answer.

Inquiring minds want to know ! Or at least mine does.

[Midnightmoon]

Originally Posted by Jopopsy

This is off topic, so I apologize; I'm not sure how to break this out into a new thread w/o putting your name in the title. But - why did you leave Airstream if I might ask? Most people on the AS forums worked their way up from SOB (some other brand for those of us not familiar w/ AS parlance) to an Airstream, yet you went the other way.

I had considered asking you this as a PM, but then the rest of the forum wouldn't benefit from your answer.

Inquiring minds want to know ! Or at least mine does.

Short version of the story, seemingly endless water leaks and rotted floors.

[bono]

RV dealerships are not in the business of advisory services. They exist to sell RVs. After 7 years being part of the RV community, I am still stunned that so many are blaming dealers for incorrect pairing their tow vehicles and trailers.

When would buyers understand that this is their responsibility to make educated choices? This should be so obvious (but it is not) - you go shopping for RV, you need to have some basic knowledge about RVs. Otherwise, you risk that somebody who just started at RV dealership this week will sell you something that does not work for you. Simple as that. Don't blame others. Spend time and learn.

Another thing is that this is ridiculous that in the US, where passing the driving test is so easy, you do not have to pass additional test for towing larger trailers. Absolutely, ridiculous.

Originally Posted by JimG010462

I think the problem is professional capacity. Many years ago companies took pride in being a professional. A professional wouldn’t have let you tow a vehicle that was too big for their truck. They would try to educate you on the proper vehicle for your truck. They educate you on what all of the different stats about your truck and trailer meant. But nowadays, dealers only have one standard. To sell a vehicle. To make a profit. I always love when the OTR drivers come in and spew their nonsense. So if it’s the operators responsibility, then why do you have to get certified to drive an OTR? By that measure, anyone should be able to drive an OTR without an OTR license. If it’s the operators responsibility, then no certifications are required. So how would they feel about sharing the road with uncertified drivers? Would their opinion change?

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by harryjr

If the one I wanted had a Class II, I could just take it down to U-Haul and have them put on a Class III. I think he was absolutely serious.

I mean... he is technically right. You could out a class IV hitch on it if you want. The question you probably wanted to know is what is the tow capacity and payload rating, but you didn't ask that.

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by JimG010462

The issue is about trust. If I can’t trust a RV dealer then why would you buy from them? Why would you trust that they sold you a good part? If I can’t trust the brand then I shouldn’t buy from them.

I disagree. The issue is about knowledge and education. If you can't be bothered to educate yourself before investing $100K and running multiple tons down the road, its not the fault of anyone else.

Anyone that trusts a salesman to provide unbiased opinion is a sheep waiting to be fleeced. I used to work at Sears in college. The "good" salesmen knew what commission each television paid. If you came in and asked for help deciding between two tvs, they would point you to the tv that paid them the higher commission. I wasn't a good salesman, I actually listened to customers and gave my best advice regardless of commission. I last about 18 months at that job before I decided it wasn't for me. Thankfully I was a college student and not feeding a family on that job, or I might have learned which units were better for ME, as opposed to YOU.

Educate yourself, rely upon yourself, be accountable to yourself.

[JimG010462]

Yes and no. If a dealer is asked a question and they give false information, then they should be liable. If they say that they are unable to give the information, then they are clear. People go to dealerships for their expert advice as much as their products.

[spoon059]

How is the dealer supposed to know how much firewood you pack? Or if you bring bikes? Or a big grill? Or lots of kid/pet stuff? Or a cooler in the bed? Or how many family members will ride in the truck per trip?

How are they supposed to know if you pack front heavy or rear heavy? With or without water in the tanks?

Is the dealer supposed to know the condition of your brakes? Or the age of the tires?

Is the dealer supposed to know if you are a competent driver or some ding dong that is dangerous just walking... let alone driving?

Are they supposed to know if you plan on driving above the speed limit often? How about down grade a lot?

There are too many variables that you cannot expect a salesman to know and provide competent advice on. I don't ask the pizza shop owner for dieting tips either, by the way.

Never seek unbiased opinions from someone who stands to gain financially from your decision.

Educate yourself.

[JimG010462]

Then they should not give the information. It’s a pretty simple thing. When asked, they should say they don’t know. They can refer you to the service department or to a knowledgeable professional.

[bono]

Pretty simple thing is that you are not paying dealer for advice. If you go to a professional advisor, pay for advice, rely on the advice and advice turn out to be incorrect, you have recourse against the advisor.

When you go to a dealer to buy a RV, you don't buy advice. You buy a RV. Blame yourself if you will agree to buy something that does not fit your needs.

Originally Posted by JimG010462

Then they should not give the information. It’s a pretty simple thing. When asked, they should say they don’t know. They can refer you to the service department or to a knowledgeable professional.

[JimG010462]

Pretty simple thing, if you ask for advice to the experts, or someone who should be an expert, then there is expectation of a level of knowledge higher than your own. If they don’t have the knowledge you seek then say so. But don’t give advice ever that you don’t know for sure. Because accidents happen that way.

[bono]

Maybe the issue is that you consider a salesman at RV dealership an expert. Regardless, advice received for free is worth as much as you paid for it.

Originally Posted by JimG010462

Pretty simple thing, if you ask for advice to the experts, or someone who should be an expert, then there is expectation of a level of knowledge higher than your own. If they don’t have the knowledge you seek then say so. But don’t give advice ever that you don’t know for sure. Because accidents happen that way.

[JimG010462]

The thing is, the salesman, maintenance department, the cashier, etc all work for the dealer. So when they give advice, they represent the dealer. The very first (or second) question a salesman says is “What type of vehicle do you have”. At that point, they have set themselves up as the expert. Otherwise, why ask the question? If they don’t ask that question, then that’s on you to determine if your vehicle fits the bill. And they represent the dealer when they ask that question. They may be the only employee that you deal with. Back when I was an aircraft mechanic, if someone asked me a question and I didn’t know the answer, I would say so and say let me get my supervisor or a more knowledgeable mechanic. Why? Because anyone who asked a question was the customer. They may have been an internal or external customer. They went to the person who was more knowledgeable than them.

[muckinfuss]

Huh? You must get taken a lot. Caveat emptor and all that. Some real facts of life that drive due diligence....first and foremost..anything not in writing can be assumed false. No salesperson is an expert (I spent 40 years as one or managing them) and shouldn't be expected to know anything other than what the features of their products are. Even then, read the documentation. If I sold washing machines...don't ask me about your electricity, water pressure, how much weight your floor can support, but if you want to know how well my machine works....it's great at what it does because that's what it was designed to do. Even someone buying a house hires an inspector and doesn't rely on the agent or the homeowner to disclose what's wrong and still make undisclosed discoveries down the road since the inspector is selling his report, not his skill. The buyer must be as expert as they can be.

[bdreinv]

Originally Posted by stevegreen

Anyone hear of any lawsuits against dealers (not manufacturers) for selling Travel Trailers that are too heave for peoples TV?

First, I don't have this problem (thankfully) b/c I was insistent with dealer that I did not want to over-work my TV to the max. Dealer kept telling wife and my inlaws that were with me that my TV could pull another couple thousand pounds (trying to upsell to larger TT).

I did not know much about TT and this was first purchase - and I definitely did not understand tongue weight, GVWR, payload, axle rates, etc...

I just knew what was on the hitch for tongue weight and pulling.

In this scenario IF I had followed the advice of the dealer sales rep I definitely would have purchased a TT that was too big (my current one is just under the max on some of the ratings - thankfully). This still ticks me off.

Where I live this would be a breach of the implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose, fraud, negligent misrepresentation, and several other possible civil actions.

You can say buyer should research, but a buyer has the right to rely on the expertise and representations of the seller/dealer.

Anyways - has someone heard of any lawsuits - I would be interested in reading the article and sending to my legislature to encourage some regulation in this area.

Buyers be ware take in your check list before you ever leave the property with your new camper. In 2015 we spent nearly 2 years scheduling warranty work on are 2015 Eagle not fun! We still have that camper no major problems since!

[JimG010462]

It’s not whether or not that they know anything. It’s whether they admit to their lack of knowledge. Giving any bad information ruins the brand. If a company is known as untrustworthy, it stays with them.

[curver900]

Originally Posted by spoon059

How is the dealer supposed to know how much firewood you pack? Or if you bring bikes? Or a big grill? Or lots of kid/pet stuff? Or a cooler in the bed? Or how many family members will ride in the truck per trip?

How are they supposed to know if you pack front heavy or rear heavy? With or without water in the tanks?

Is the dealer supposed to know the condition of your brakes? Or the age of the tires?

Is the dealer supposed to know if you are a competent driver or some ding dong that is dangerous just walking... let alone driving?

Are they supposed to know if you plan on driving above the speed limit often? How about down grade a lot?

There are too many variables that you cannot expect a salesman to know and provide competent advice on. I don't ask the pizza shop owner for dieting tips either, by the way.

Never seek unbiased opinions from someone who stands to gain financially from your decision.

Educate yourself.

Hey you sound like you are advocating for personal accountability!!! we don't do that anymore... /sarcasm

At the end of the day you are responsible for your decisions... blaming others is for teenagers.. i know i have 2 of them... it's NEVER their fault! weird!

let's all sue, then complain the price of the products are too expensive and have STUPID warning labels...

[curver900]

Originally Posted by JimG010462

It’s not whether or not that they know anything. It’s whether they admit to their lack of knowledge. Giving any bad information ruins the brand. If a company is known as untrustworthy, it stays with them.

then they loose business and then they go out of business... that's how it is supposed to work.... but we know it doesn't...

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by curver900

Hey you sound like you are advocating for personal accountability!!! we don't do that anymore... /sarcasm

I'm sorry, it must be someone else's fault

[Falcon67]

My personal opinion is that the buyer should school themselves about tow ratings, GVWR, GCVW, tongue weights, WD hitches, etc, etc before they buy anything with a hitch on it. All the info is available, in my case I use the Ford Fleet publications for the trucks. Most trailer ratings are "dry", so best to remember that water is 8.3 lbs/gallon and everything you stick in the box has a weight.

In practice - apparently nobody does that. We drag race, so I see a lot of different trailers being pulled by a lot of different vehicles. I've seen stacker trailers bumper pull into the track on the tail of SRW F-250s. I've asked fellow racers "how much you pulling? What's the tongue weight on that rig?" and maybe one in 20 knows. Apparently, I'm an oddball in that I have the CAT Weigh My Truck app and have the saved weight specs on everything we pull. It's worth the $12 and I get weight for every axle.