Real World Payload - RAM 3500 DRW

[Hotrod6]

2014 Ram 3500 Laramie, 4x4, Cummins/Asin, DRW, Crew Cab, 8'bed.

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by Bandit12

I think your truck has more payload that you listed. If you go here, https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing/towing-guide.html you can click on look up my vehicle, input your trucks VIN and it should tell you the exact payload. Older trucks, Ram FCA has all the numbers listed in PDF files.

No, that is the door sticker, and agrees with the VIN number from Ram. MY trucks GVWR is 12,300 Pounds



LOOK UP MY VEHICLE

Look up towing and payload for a specific vehicle

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2021 RAM 3500 LARAMIE CREW CAB 4X4 8' BOX
6-Speed Automatic 68RFE Transmission










Vehicle images shown may not reflect the selected model year. See dealer for details.

MAX PAYLOAD
3963.02LBS

[Bandit12]

Originally Posted by jetlag

No, that is the door sticker, and agrees with the VIN number from Ram. MY trucks GVWR is 12,300 Pounds



LOOK UP MY VEHICLE

Look up towing and payload for a specific vehicle

Step 4 of 42021

VIN or Year



Vehicle



Options



Step 4 of 4

Results






2021 RAM 3500 LARAMIE CREW CAB 4X4 8' BOX
6-Speed Automatic 68RFE Transmission










Vehicle images shown may not reflect the selected model year. See dealer for details.

MAX PAYLOAD
3963.02LBS

I just went thru the Ram website I listed above, and since I don't have your VIN, I input the information you have listed for your vehicle. 2021 Ram 3500, Crew Cab 4X4, Laramie, 8 foot box, Cummins, 68RFE trans and this is what it gave me:

MAX PAYLOAD
5,860LBS
MAX TOWING
19,690LBS

On another forum I'm on, there has been a discussion of those yellow door stickers. The information I got from that was the door sticker lists the payload for the tires that are installed on the truck at the time of manufacture. If you upgrade the tires, to a 12 or 14 ply tire, your payload capacity should increase to the max the truck is listed for, nearly 6,000 pounds. Talk to your local tire shop and truck dealer, ask them to confirm this information. See what they say and let us know.

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by Bandit12

I just went thru the Ram website I listed above, and since I don't have your VIN, I input the information you have listed for your vehicle. 2021 Ram 3500, Crew Cab 4X4, Laramie, 8 foot box, Cummins, 68RFE trans and this is what it gave me:

MAX PAYLOAD
5,860LBS
MAX TOWING
19,690LBS

On another forum I'm on, there has been a discussion of those yellow door stickers. The information I got from that was the door sticker lists the payload for the tires that are installed on the truck at the time of manufacture. If you upgrade the tires, to a 12 or 14 ply tire, your payload capacity should increase to the max the truck is listed for, nearly 6,000 pounds. Talk to your local tire shop and truck dealer, ask them to confirm this information. See what they say and let us know.

I think what you might be looking at is a bare bones Tradesman model and even then I don't quite see 6K pounds with standard axle ratio. This truck has a GVWR of 12,300 pounds and this truck in its Laramie configuration with all the options weighs 8,337 pounds hence the available payload. I think the limiting thing here is the rear axle and not the tires, and as best I can tell, and I am no expert, those yellow stickers are the bible . If not, FCA would have listed separate combinations of tires and payloads.

[WFOracing]

2018 RAM 3500HD Dually, Long Bed, 6-speed AISIN Trans (H.O. pkg.), 4.10 Max-Tow, Air-Lift 7500 lb. bags, 32K tow rated. Set-up for Jayco 4212 Toy Hauler, 45 ft. (ext. dim), 3-axles. It's big.

Can't beat the set-up.

Dually's are not so practical for around town but they make such a huge difference when towing larger rigs.

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by WFOracing

2018 RAM 3500HD Dually, Long Bed, 6-speed AISIN Trans (H.O. pkg.), 4.10 Max-Tow, Air-Lift 7500 lb. bags, 32K tow rated. Set-up for Jayco 4212 Toy Hauler, 45 ft. (ext. dim), 3-axles. It's big.

Can't beat the set-up.

Dually's are not so practical for around town but they make such a huge difference when towing larger rigs.

Yep, you certainly need the Dually. Like you said, otherwise it is not a very good all around driver and it is my daily driver. As it is it is still long and awkward to maneuver around town. Glad we live in the country.. I am not quite in your league, 2 axles and a 16.5K GVWR, although I believe we are typically 1K or more under. We are long weekend warriors and don't come close to loading it up like some we see .

[formerwsp520]

I have found the yellow sticker next to useless in estimating the payload of my truck. After scaling my truck (and F150) with me and a full tank of gas (36 gal) the sticker was 330 pounds off. My gold standard is the other sticker with the axle weights and GVWR listed. The trouble with this is what does the truck weigh as we use it before adding the trailer/5th wheel. Good luck and happy camping.

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by formerwsp520

I have found the yellow sticker next to useless in estimating the payload of my truck. After scaling my truck (and F150) with me and a full tank of gas (36 gal) the sticker was 330 pounds off. My gold standard is the other sticker with the axle weights and GVWR listed. The trouble with this is what does the truck weigh as we use it before adding the trailer/5th wheel. Good luck and happy camping.

I may be misunderstanding your post, and certainly no expert here, lol. I am under the impression from all I have read that the yellow sticker with your payload refers to your truck as built with all the options, etc and that includes a full tank of gas. It does not include you in there either, you are part of the available payload. My truck has a 50 gallon tank, and I am sure my payload would have been higher if i had chosen the standard fuel tank.

[67L48]

Originally Posted by jetlag

[...] I am under the impression from all I have read that the yellow sticker with your payload refers to your truck as built with all the options, etc and that includes a full tank of gas. It does not include you in there either, you are part of the available payload. [...]

You are correct.

Payload = GVWR - GVW

GVW is the weight of the truck as it rolls off the line, wet (driveable). So, oil, fuel, windshield wiper fluid, whatever. It does not include the driver. There are some measures, such as the mythical maximum payload capacity advertised on commercials and in brochures, that do make an allotment for a 150 lb driver. The useless Tow Capacity number also typically makes this allotment. But, GVWR and Payload (remember that payload is merely a proxy for GVWR) do not.

People conflate all of these ratings all of the time and erroneously state that a driver is included in the payload rating. Ideally, 150 lbs either way won't matter.

But ...

Originally Posted by formerwsp520

I have found the yellow sticker next to useless in estimating the payload of my truck. After scaling my truck (and F150) with me and a full tank of gas (36 gal) the sticker was 330 pounds off. [...]

I'm not sure what direction "off" was, but I suspect it was on the low side. And, that is likely due to a combination of things: your weight as a driver (which does count against payload), anything else in or on the truck since it left the factory (including heavier tires), and just scale differences. I'll assume you're of average build and weigh 180 lbs, fully clothed. So, step out of the truck and suddenly your yellow sticker is within 150 lbs of your scaled weight. Pretty close, particularly if there are any other items in/on the truck.

Naturally, the higher the trim level, the more your truck will weigh as built, whereas the GVWR is fixed. For example, in 2019, an F-350 SRW Crew Cab truck had a GVWR of 11,500 lbs. Period. That number wouldn't change, regardless of any option you selected (other than, of course, a GVWR de-rating option). A Limited 6.7L is going to chew through a bunch of that GVWR and leave less available payload than an XLT 6.2L.

Just as with RVs, where people make all kinds of poor decisions based on fictional published dry weights, people will often make terrible decisions based on truck manufacturers' mythical published maximum payload and tow capacity numbers.

[specialK]

Mine is a 2020 Ram 3500 DRW Laramie with the HO diesel and the Aisin. According to Mopar my payload is 5590 pounds. Maybe? 8' box, 4x4.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/content/da...Chart_MY20.pdf

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by 67L48

You are correct.

Payload = GVWR - GVW

GVW is the weight of the truck as it rolls off the line, wet (driveable). So, oil, fuel, windshield wiper fluid, whatever. It does not include the driver. There are some measures, such as the mythical maximum payload capacity advertised on commercials and in brochures, that do make an allotment for a 150 lb driver. The useless Tow Capacity number also typically makes this allotment. But, GVWR and Payload (remember that payload is merely a proxy for GVWR) do not.

People conflate all of these ratings all of the time and erroneously state that a driver is included in the payload rating. Ideally, 150 lbs either way won't matter.

But ...
I'm not sure what direction "off" was, but I suspect it was on the low side. And, that is likely due to a combination of things: your weight as a driver (which does count against payload), anything else in or on the truck since it left the factory (including heavier tires), and just scale differences. I'll assume you're of average build and weigh 180 lbs, fully clothed. So, step out of the truck and suddenly your yellow sticker is within 150 lbs of your scaled weight. Pretty close, particularly if there are any other items in/on the truck.

Naturally, the higher the trim level, the more your truck will weigh as built, whereas the GVWR is fixed. For example, in 2019, an F-350 SRW Crew Cab truck had a GVWR of 11,500 lbs. Period. That number wouldn't change, regardless of any option you selected (other than, of course, a GVWR de-rating option). A Limited 6.7L is going to chew through a bunch of that GVWR and leave less available payload than an XLT 6.2L.

Just as with RVs, where people make all kinds of poor decisions based on fictional published dry weights, people will often make terrible decisions based on truck manufacturers' mythical published maximum payload and tow capacity numbers.

Excellent explanation. I suspected he was not "off" as much as he thought once you removed him and any other items he has added to the truck. And, not being mean, but if he is a bit on the heavier side, then we are getting close to the yellow sticker payload, lol.

[specialK]

Originally Posted by 67L48

You are correct.

Payload = GVWR - GVW

GVW is the weight of the truck as it rolls off the line, wet (driveable). So, oil, fuel, windshield wiper fluid, whatever. It does not include the driver. There are some measures, such as the mythical maximum payload capacity advertised on commercials and in brochures, that do make an allotment for a 150 lb driver. The useless Tow Capacity number also typically makes this allotment. But, GVWR and Payload (remember that payload is merely a proxy for GVWR) do not.

People conflate all of these ratings all of the time and erroneously state that a driver is included in the payload rating. Ideally, 150 lbs either way won't matter.

But ...
I'm not sure what direction "off" was, but I suspect it was on the low side. And, that is likely due to a combination of things: your weight as a driver (which does count against payload), anything else in or on the truck since it left the factory (including heavier tires), and just scale differences. I'll assume you're of average build and weigh 180 lbs, fully clothed. So, step out of the truck and suddenly your yellow sticker is within 150 lbs of your scaled weight. Pretty close, particularly if there are any other items in/on the truck.

Naturally, the higher the trim level, the more your truck will weigh as built, whereas the GVWR is fixed. For example, in 2019, an F-350 SRW Crew Cab truck had a GVWR of 11,500 lbs. Period. That number wouldn't change, regardless of any option you selected (other than, of course, a GVWR de-rating option). A Limited 6.7L is going to chew through a bunch of that GVWR and leave less available payload than an XLT 6.2L.

Just as with RVs, where people make all kinds of poor decisions based on fictional published dry weights, people will often make terrible decisions based on truck manufacturers' mythical published maximum payload and tow capacity numbers.

Not accurate. GVW is not the curb weight. That's the curb weight. GVW is the weight of the vehicle, including payload, at a point in time. GVWR is the total weight of the vehicle with max payload. Curb weight is figured empty. Fuel, people, cargo, anything pushing down on the axles, including unsprung weight, is the GVW.

GCWR is the weight of everything attached to the vehicle. Truck, cargo, people, tongue weight, trailer. There's also a max for this measurement published by manufacturers.

[67L48]

Originally Posted by specialK

Not accurate. GVW is not the curb weight. That's the curb weight. GVW is the weight of the vehicle, including payload, at a point in time. [...]

Yes, of course. My comments were in the context of a truck's rated payload found in the door jamb sticker that forms the foundation of this entire thread.

So, you are correct and the "point in time" that's relevant to this thread is when it rolled off the line. So, when you look at a vehicle's door jamb payload sticker, the number you see after the "Occupants and cargo should never exceed" line will be:

Payload = GVWR - GVW

The GVW for this will be the truck as built rolling off the line, wet. GVWR is the factory's rating. The Payload is then calculated, printed onto a sticker, and affixed to your door jamb.

Cheers.

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by specialK

Not accurate. GVW is not the curb weight. That's the curb weight. GVW is the weight of the vehicle, including payload, at a point in time. GVWR is the total weight of the vehicle with max payload. Curb weight is figured empty. Fuel, people, cargo, anything pushing down on the axles, including unsprung weight, is the GVW.

GCWR is the weight of everything attached to the vehicle. Truck, cargo, people, tongue weight, trailer. There's also a max for this measurement published by manufacturers.

It can get confusing, however GCWR minus vehicle weight out of the factory door, which includes all fluids= payload. Not so hard. Somehow folks try to make this hard. My truck comes out of the factory at an X weight.That X weight includes all fluids, and not a person or tool box or whatever. The same truck has a GVWR, 12,300 pounds in my case. Subtract this weight from the factory weighed truck out the door with all the options and fluids, and you have payload.

[67L48]

I'm not sure why people are confusing this conversation by including GCWR. GCWR is the Gross Combined Weight Rating. That means that the GCWR is not the weight of everything attached to the truck. That would be GCW. The "R" means that this is the maximum rated capacity ... similar to the GVWR is the rated maximum weight that can be in/on a vehicle. GCWR for a given vehicle tells you the maximum that the sum of the vehicle weight and your towable weight can be.

Originally Posted by jetlag

It can get confusing, however GCWR minus vehicle weight out of the factory door, which includes all fluids= payload. Not so hard. [...]

This makes it hard, because that is absolutely not a correct statement. GCWR minus GVW at factory does not equal a vehicle's payload rating. A 1 ton diesel SRW will have a GCWR of around 29,000 lbs or more and will weigh around 8,000 lbs rolling off the line ... and I guarantee you that you won't find any truck with a payload sticker in the door jamb that reads 21,000 lbs! I believe you are conflating GCWR with GVWR and are, therefore, making this hard and confusing.

GCWR has almost no relation to payload; a vehicle's GCWR is not necessarily the sum of the GVWR and Tow Capacity. There are other factors. Particularly in smaller vehicles (1/2 tons and lower), the GCWR < GVWR + Tow Capacity ... which means that you can either haul max or tow max, but you can't do both.

For these larger trucks (1 tons and DRWs) that are pulling 15-25K loads, GCWR is important to consider. But this thread is about payload and payload, while a proxy to GVWR, is not as closely related to GCWR. Stirring GCWR into this soup just adds confusion to what should be a fairly linear conversation about payload/GVWR.

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by 67L48

I'm not sure why people are confusing this conversation by including GCWR. GCWR is the Gross Combined Weight Rating. That means that the GCWR is not the weight of everything attached to the truck. That would be GCW. The "R" means that this is the maximum rated capacity ... similar to the GVWR is the rated maximum weight that can be in/on a vehicle. GCWR for a given vehicle tells you the maximum that the sum of the vehicle weight and your towable weight can be.


This makes it hard, because that is absolutely not correct. GCWR minus GWR at factory does not equal payload. A 1 ton diesel SRW will have a GCWR of around 29,000 lbs or more and will weigh around 8,000 lbs rolling off the line ... and I guarantee you that you won't find any truck with a payload sticker in the door jamb that read 21,000 lbs! I believe you are conflating GCWR with GVWR and are, therefore, making this hard and confusing.

GCWR has almost no relation to payload; a vehicle's GCWR is not necessarily the sum of the GVWR and Tow Capacity. There are other factors. Particularly in smaller vehicles (1/2 tons and lower), the GCWR < GVWR + Tow Capacity ... which means that you can either haul max or tow max, but you can't do both.

For these larger trucks (1 tons and DRWs) that are pulling 15-25K loads, GCWR is important to consider. But this thread is about payload and payload, while a proxy to GVWR, is not as closely related to GCWR. Stirring GCWR into this soup just adds confusion to what should be a fairly linear conversation about payload/GVWR.

I believe you are conflating GCWR with GVWR and are, therefore, making this hard and confusing.


You are absolutely correct, my bad. I did mean GVWR and did make this hard and confusing.

[specialK]

Sorry, I think I brought up the GCWR. Because the OP asked about weight rating and making sure he wouldn't be overweight, so I threw that out there.

So, in summary, and let me know if I missed anything -
Curb weight - weight of the vehicle as it sits fresh out of the factory
Payload - how much the vehicle can handle, inclusive of people cargo, and trailer weight directly on the vehicle. Obtained by subtracting curb weight from the GVWR
GVW - current weight of vehicle, inclusive of all people and cargo
GVWR - maximum weight of the vehicle, including fluids, people, and cargo
GCVWR - maximum weight of the vehicle, occupants, cargo, and anything attached to the vehicle

All are important. And none are really that difficult to understand. How they interract can be a bit more confusing....

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by specialK

Sorry, I think I brought up the GCWR. Because the OP asked about weight rating and making sure he wouldn't be overweight, so I threw that out there.

So, in summary, and let me know if I missed anything -
Curb weight - weight of the vehicle as it sits fresh out of the factory
Payload - how much the vehicle can handle, inclusive of people cargo, and trailer weight directly on the vehicle. Obtained by subtracting curb weight from the GVWR
GVW - current weight of vehicle, inclusive of all people and cargo
GVWR - maximum weight of the vehicle, including fluids, people, and cargo
GCVWR - maximum weight of the vehicle, occupants, cargo, and anything attached to the vehicle

All are important. And none are really that difficult to understand. How they interract can be a bit more confusing....

sounds good, I am afraid to say anything and confuse us even more, lol. Typically, with what we are doing here, pulling trailers, our big limitations will be the truck's payload. Of course, you can add another dimension to this is you are pulling a very heavy trailer, then other concerns arise, That being the GCVWR. In my case, a SRW 2021 Ram 3500 and pulling a 5th wheel with a 16,500 pound GVWR, although we are a good 1K pounds under that typically. My pin weight I am GUESSING is around 32-3300 pounds and I have a payload of 3963, ok 4000!! We travel light, no tool box in truck, just mama, me and 2 10 pound toy poodles. I have the Andersen AUH because it is so light, and i was afraid to run into weight issues. The one time we have pulled the 5th wheel it was very good. Now go into the "whose pulling a 5ers with 3/4 ton" thread and I don't feel nearly as bad.

[robkelly]

Thanks all for the comments and help, and agree, this can get very confusing.

Pulled the trigger a few days ago and ordered a 2022 RAM 3500 DRW HO/AISIN w/4.10. Now the 12-14 weeks wait for delivery...

Also went through everything in the basement last weekend and was able to eliminate ~500 lbs of "stuff" that we don't use/don't need so that will help with my pin weight. It's amazing how quickly the weight adds up.

[WFOracing]

Congratulations on the big purchase! I don't know the trim level or accessories you've ordered but I started w/a Tradesman and added chrome pkg, MaxTow, comfort, bigger U-connect, etc., then the Air Lift 7500# air bags w/ onboard compressor for ride height safety. Some RAM trims have an OEM equivalent. Though not quite as hefty, they certainly seem adequate.

Get the RAM Factory Hitch, I wish I would have. It's much nicer than aftermarket offerings.

You now know for sure that there are no trailers or small houses out there now nor on the horizon that your new RAM won't pull with ease!