towing capacity - how close to the max?

[roblaura2]

Keep in mind that the actual maximum tow capacity for the engine and transmission is the manufacturer's listed amount minus the weight of items in the vehicle including the driver and passengers. Thus, if the listed tow maximum is 5K lbs, the driver and passengers weigh a total 400 lbs, and luggage etc weighs 200 lbs, then the actual maximum towing weight is 4.4K lbs. (5K - .6K). I have confirmed this with several dealers who sell vehicles folks use for towing.

[Hollander Mutthaulers]

We towed 3,500 pounds with a Trailblazer 4.2 I6 for two years. It was fine on flat land but struggled in head winds and maxed out at 9,000 feet elevation.

Now I have a Tahoe 5.3 V8 for our little trailer, and man is it ever nice! Wind will always be a factor but towing is a breeze. The vision and gas consumption is better, it's more stable and easier on the vehicle. Altitude in the Rockies is no longer a factor.

Somewhere on this forum I read you can never have too big of a tow vehicle. I'll second that!

Best wishes for a super tow vehicle for you and lots of happy camping ahead!

[arobinson6]

I had a SUV for a 2800 wt RV, my SUV could tow 3500, just didnt feel safe. I then up graded to a 3000 wt RV, loads 3500, So I bought a chevy silverado 1500 extended cab that ca tow 6000 lbs, feels safer

[mnaquaman]

Give yourself some margin. I try not to exceed 75% of the max capacity. Like others I have towed at the Max capacity and yes it can be done safely. However, you wont like it! I know one should never relax when driving, but than again where does it say I have be whipped out when I arrive. I know from experience that not pulling at the Max Capacity is better for the truck and myself!! Its also safer for anyone that is around me on the road!!


Happy towing and enjoy your new rig!!

[DocBrown]

The notion of towing anything over your rated capacity is simply not a good idea, whether the TV is an SUV or a full size truck. The notion that you can and should do so is pushed by Andy Thompson, largely based on the argument that in Europe they are supposedly towing larger trailers with smaller vehicles. The reality is that in many European countries they are not doing this. The European towing experts recommend never towing a trailer that weighs more than the weight of the tow vehicle. In the UK and Germany, that is the law.

Another consideration is how tow ratings are determined in Europe vs the US. Not apples to apples as some would want us to believe. Moreover trailers are built differently in Europe than they are here. This article explains it nicely, if you don't mind a physics and math lesson.

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/tow-me-down-1609112611

When all is said and done an SUV can be a fine TV for the right trailer, within it's rated parameters. And please, comfort is a personal thing. I'm VERY comfortable in my Sierra. I can drive many hours and never feel fatigued. Until one actually tows 1500 miles with a full size truck, they really can't say it's not a good towing experience.

I will say this, the BMW X5 would be a very good tow vehicle for his trailer. It's well within ratings and would be a very comfortable ride. The towing capacity is on par with a Suburban or Tahoe. It might even have a better payload.

[bono]

I do not think that Andy is pushing anything based on what European are towing. This would not make any sense, as you can't compare both markets.

As you mentioned, there are different trailer on the roads in Europe and the US. The most important difference IMO is the fact that you can't use weight distribution in Europe. This impacts what trailers are built in Europe. And therefore you have certain restrictions in the EU countries regarding ration of the weight trailer / tow vehicle.

[DocBrown]

Bono, it's been years, probably at least 10, since I've seen him post in a forum, but that's where I've seen him make that comparison. He's an advocate of the idea that vehicle tow ratings are under rated (which may be but that's another discussion) and the trailers Europeans were towing at the time were proof of that. His engineering principles and setups are sound. Sending people with mini-vans off the lot with 5000# trailers is not.

[bono]

I do not want to be his advocate... however, he is frequently posting on airstream forum and I read his comments many times. Obviously his opinions do not get traction with many of the forum users.

I would rather say that his recommendations are based on his assessment of the tow vehicle platforms and also handling of the cars. This is the reason why he hitches up Jaguar or Mercedes sedan with the trailer, when his daughter goes camping. I talked to a guy who bought one of the first BMW X5 E53 on the market (around 2006) and wanted to tow 31' trailer. Andy went to the closest dealership to check on how the car is built (suspension, hitch attachment points, etc.). He is consultant to SAE. Porsche, a company with houses full of engineers, went to him when the wanted to hitch up airstream with cayenne.

I believe he does not need to relay on what Europeans are towing...

[venoran]

There are a lot of configuration options here, and there are SUV options that have plenty of capacity and payload for what the OP is asking to do. Just depends on whether you are ok with being close to the limit or if you want some ability to upgrade to another larger trailer down the road. If there is even a slight chance you might upgrade, then get a full size pickup...they start at 7000lbs capacity.

If you plan on keeping around the same size/weight trailer for a long time (or don't mind trading up your vehicle at a future date) there are quite a few options that go above the base 5000lb tow capacity. They may cost more than a mid-trim 150/1500 size pickup, so keep that in mind...the incentives and markdowns available on pickups are insane.

From my previous searching last year, here are some of the SUV's to look at:
Ford Expedition - 6500-9300lbs tow, not sure about payload
Dodge Durango - 6200lbs tow, 1380lbs payload
Infiniti QX80 - 8500lbs tow, not sure about payload
BMW X5 - 6600-7200lbs tow, 1290-1349lbs payload

ETA: As you can see I chose to get an XLT trim F150, and I am very happy with the choice...and my wife was also happy because she got to pick a trailer several sizes larger than we were originally considering.

[DocBrown]

Originally Posted by bono

I would rather say that his recommendations are based on his assessment of the tow vehicle platforms and also handling of the cars. This is the reason why he hitches up Jaguar or Mercedes sedan with the trailer, when his daughter goes camping.

Again, I don't have an issue with his engineering and implementation so long as it's keeping within rated capacities. In fact what he does is pretty cool. It's when he sends mini-van owners off his lot towing 7k lb Airstreams. That's what bugs me. Also, keep in mind that he's in Canada. Canada is not a litigious country like the US is. If he was based in the US I guarantee he would not be doing this due to civil liability issues.

[RogerR]

My choice, the Jeep Grand Cherokee, was missed in the list two posts back.

It, like many vehicles, comes in multiple versions, engines and capabilities.

Max Tow varies from 3,500 to 7,200

Max load varies from 1,237 to 1,987.

Models changes also may change weight ratings in mid year. The door sticker is the best way to check what you can carry and haul.

[Jagiven]

There are a lot of variables that play into your towing capacity. I think a lot of people just look at the sticker on the door and think they are good to go! You have to look at the big picture, which includes all the items in and on the vehicle. All vehicles I am familiar with base their numbers based on a full tank of fuel, and a 150 pound driver. Nothing else in/on the vehicle. The payload is everything in/on the TV beyond the fuel and average sized driver.

Calculate what you will be hauling in the TV, all the people, remember kids grow and all "stuff" they bring along with for entertainment. Pets, firewood, coolers, whatever else you have in back. Don't forget the weight of the hitch

Hypothetical loading
So let's say all 3 kids weight today 200 #
Kids grow and bring friends and more stuff as they grow
You and your DW, add another 200 # (beyond the 150# driver allocation)
Entertainment items - 75 #
Dog - 50 #
General cargo 200 #
Tongue weight 700#

Total payload 1425

[bono]

Not even trying to convince anybody that mfg towing specs are only suggestions/recommendations, as I know that this is difficult for many to accept... I look at what he is doing something similar to what e.g. car tuners are doing, i.e. adding HP/torque to factory specs car. Tuner should not be liable for accidents, where driver looses control because of the additional power the car has. Would you agree? Why Andy should be liable for reinforcing the hitch? He is not asking people to tow above the tow specs.

Originally Posted by DocBrown

Again, I don't have an issue with his engineering and implementation so long as it's keeping within rated capacities. In fact what he does is pretty cool. It's when he sends mini-van owners off his lot towing 7k lb Airstreams. That's what bugs me. Also, keep in mind that he's in Canada. Canada is not a litigious country like the US is. If he was based in the US I guarantee he would not be doing this due to civil liability issues.

[DocBrown]

Originally Posted by bono

Not even trying to convince anybody that mfg towing specs are only suggestions/recommendations, as I know that this is difficult for many to accept...

What I accept is my experiences. When I towed a 3500# 17 foot hybrid with a min-van I learned a lot by reading Andy Thompson's stuff. It was OK, but not a stellar experience. Ultimately mini-vans are poor for towing travel trailers, despite his slalom videos showing one towing a 30 ft trailer. It simply is not a pleasant experience. Most people that have tried that ended up with more appropriate tow vehicles. And you wonder why people have a hard time accepting?

[bono]

Are you sure that you had everything set up properly with your mini-van? There are a couple of folks towing large trailers with Japanese mini-van on airstream forum and they are happy... Long wheel base, decent payload, low center of gravity.

[Al97]

There is a big difference between what trailer weight a vehicle can pull versus what is can safely pull.

Using a online trailer weight calculator will open your eyes to how much less trailer weight a vehicle can pull compared to the factory rating.

I finally understood the calculation this way:
Currently the factory tow ratings for a vehicle are done per SAE J2807.
This specification says the factory calculates the tow rating with the TV loaded with driver, fuel, basic tow equipment (and maybe a passenger for trucks only depending upon the year the test was done because of recent revisions).

Therefore the factory tow rating does not include any extra passengers or cargo in the car/truck even though you are allowed by the GVWR to add that weight.

So for every extra pound of cargo/passenger weight that goes into your TV it has to be subtracted from the tow rating to keep the combined TV/Trailer weight the same as when tested per SAE J2807 conditions.

That could be up to 500-1000 lbs. of cargo weight that has to be subtracted from the tow rating.

That would be the adjusted maximum tow rating but it is highly recommended to apply a safety factor of 20% to that.

So a 5,000 lb factory tow rating could easily become a 3600 lb max rating.

For my Jeep Cherokee with a tow rating of 4500 lbs. it adjusted to a max of 3200 lbs. in the end. So I bought a trailer with a max loaded weight rating close to that.

Even though a vehicle can physically move a trailer with more weight than that it is not done safely.

[bono]

First, only SOME manufacturers use SAE J2807 standard, not all. It is not any magical procedure, just should allow to compare cars for towing performance.

Second, if extra passengers would make some much difference with overall performance of the vehicle when towing, then this would be really, really bad performance.

Third, you said "it is highly recommended to apply a safety factor of 20% to that.". It is recommended by whom? This does not make ANY sense to apply any factors. Manufacturers are doing testing, etc. In particular, only for the US market many non-US manufacturers are cutting the tow ratings. Why to apply additional factors?

[Atlee]

Originally Posted by RAurand

EXECPT..... The SUV can carry 7 -8 people.... the 1/2 ton can not.

Haven't seen the numbers on the regular sized SUV mentioned by the OP, but I suspect with 7-8 people, plus a proper WDH w/ sway control, plus the tongue weight of the trailer, I'd bet he'd be way over the cargo capacity of his SUV.

[bono]

He did not necessarily meant carrying 7-8 ppl when towing.

[RAurand]

HERE IS HOW A FRIEND TOWS HIS RIG.

Don't need to worry about weight limits here. He is a full timer.