V8 Tundra vs V6 F150 - Buying For The Future

[Midnightmoon]

Originally Posted by Demiles

While a longer wheelbase certainly helps it doesn’t tell the whole story. Increasing unladen TV mass by 800 lbs + will have a much greater effect on stability then 5 inches of wheelbase. Increasing TV unladen mass is the single best thing you can do to improve TV stability. While a f150 HDPP has a high payload rating it’s still lacking the front axle weight it needs to offset higher TW just like any other half ton. A WDH won’t move the TV center of gravity forward to fix this.

Little side story about tow vehicle tare weight that im sure Mad Cow and others can relate to. Back about 15 years ago, I drove for a small company that had approx 20 trucks. They were a mixed bag of units that the owner purchased either new or used over the years so there were few identical spec trucks in the fleet like you see with large companies.

I was assigned a 1998 Pete 379. Real basic truck, CAT, 48" bunk, etc. Anyway, it ran across the scales at approx 17350#. They also had a couple of decked out Volvo's that scaled close to 20,000#.

The company had a contract to haul these loads of paper. With the difference in tare weight with my unit, they could squeeze one additional pallet in the trailer every time I took a load as compared to the guys running the Volvo's. As you can imagine, I got that run all of the time. Dispatchers want as much product on that truck as they can each time out to reduce costs. I liked the route, so I would reject moving to another truck if it meant giving up that load.

Anyways, sorry for the topic detour, but I always think of that when someone brings up tare weight and I guess to illustrate that there are times when a lighter unit is advantageous over a heavier one, especially in the trucking industry.

[jbrnigan]

Originally Posted by mass-hole

And not everyone needs or wants a 450hp/930ft-lb diesel. A 2500 Diesel is stupid these days because the engine far exceeds the capability of the chassis and cost $10000.

The beauty of forums is a platform for making goofy statements, citing opinions as fact. Well, FWIW, I'm one of many on this forum who own a 2500 diesel. As you can see from my sig, it's more than I "needed" for my trailer, but it's what I WANTED - "because", it had 450hp/930ft lbs! PS - a Lexus cost more than a Camry - wonder if Camry owners are smarter than Lexus buyers? LOL

[CampNow]

The 10,000 lb. GVWR (and resulting lower payload) for 3/4-ton trucks is an artificial limit to accommodate DOT and state registration requirements.

A little pause for thought: Do we really think truck manufacturers are unable to make a 3/4-ton truck with a GVWR more than 10,000 lbs? Of course not. But, if they did make a 3/4-ton truck with, say, a 10,001 lb. GVWR (only ONE pound higher), it would then become, for DOT/state registration purposes, a "1-ton" truck. Who would want to purchase a 3/4-ton truck with a 10,001 GVWR and be saddled with the additional DOT/state registration hassles for a 1-ton truck?

Manufacturers make 3/4-ton and 1-ton trucks using 98% of the same components to cut-down significantly on production costs. They're able to make two different lines of trucks for the R&D costs of one. Manufacturers first R&D a 1-ton SRW truck then simply use a slightly derated rear suspension components to produce a 3/4-ton truck. It's common knowledge both lines of SRW trucks use the same frame, drivetrain, rear axle, differential components, and tires (some base, trim-level trucks use lower rated tires). The manufacturers use different mechanical suspension components---just enough to satisfy legal requirements for a lower GVWR and RAWR. This is more of a legal "carrot" then a real attempt at making a substantial mechanical difference. Mechanically, the difference is dramatically less than the almost 2,000 lb. "paper" difference in GVWR and payload with the diesel version of these trucks (easily proven with frame/axle, empty/loaded suspension sag test comparisons between same optioned 3/4-ton vs.1-ton SRW diesel trucks). If they didn't make this slight change, don't think the DOT and state regulators would look kindly at the manufacturers making the same, exact truck (suspension included) and simply changing the badging and GVWR/RAWR on paper.

Bottom line, when I see "functional" comparisons made between:

1) An aluminum F150 that weighs approx. 5,000 lbs. with 2,000 lbs. of payload

vs.

2) A 3/4-ton truck with 2,000 lbs. of payload (based on an artificial GVWR) that weighs almost 7,000 - 8,000 lbs.

I really have to scratch my head and grin

[Midnightmoon]

Originally Posted by CampNow

The 10,000 lb. GVWR (and resulting lower payload) for 3/4-ton trucks is an artificial limit to accommodate DOT and state registration requirements.

A little pause for thought: Do we really think truck manufacturers are unable to make a 3/4-ton truck with a GVWR more than 10,000 lbs? Of course not. But, if they did make a 3/4-ton truck with, say, a 10,001 lb. GVWR (only ONE pound higher), it would then become, for DOT/state registration purposes, a "1-ton" truck. Who would want to purchase a 3/4-ton truck with a 10,001 GVWR and be saddled with the additional DOT/state registration hassles for a 1-ton truck?

Manufacturers make 3/4-ton and 1-ton trucks using 98% of the same components to cut-down significantly on production costs. They're able to make two different lines of trucks for the R&D costs of one. Manufacturers first R&D a 1-ton SRW truck then simply use a slightly derated rear suspension components to produce a 3/4-ton truck. It's common knowledge both lines of SRW trucks use the same frame, drivetrain, rear axle, differential components, and tires (some base, trim-level trucks use lower rated tires). The manufacturers use different mechanical suspension components---just enough to satisfy legal requirements for a lower GVWR and RAWR. This is more of a legal "carrot" then a real attempt at making a substantial mechanical difference. Mechanically, the difference is dramatically less than the almost 2,000 lb. "paper" difference in GVWR and payload with the diesel version of these trucks (easily proven with frame/axle, empty/loaded suspension sag test comparisons between same optioned 3/4-ton vs.1-ton SRW diesel trucks). If they didn't make this slight change, don't think the DOT and state regulators would look kindly at the manufacturers making the same, exact truck (suspension included) and simply changing the badging and GVWR/RAWR on paper.

Bottom line, when I see "functional" comparisons made between:

1) An aluminum F150 that weighs approx. 5,000 lbs. with 2,000 lbs. of payload

vs.

2) A 3/4-ton truck with 2,000 lbs. of payload (based on an artificial GVWR) that weighs almost 7,000 - 8,000 lbs.

I really have to scratch my head and grin

This exactly illustrates the point that I was trying to make back in post #31 of this thread when I posted the payload stickers of of both of my trucks. Though the "on paper" payload of the trucks are within 200# of each other, you certainly can't compare the capability of the 2 for the reasons you listed above.