Jayco RV Owners Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-09-2013, 08:46 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
wmoses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by aflyfishr View Post
I have not yet pulled with my 2013, 4WD Pilot but do intend to pull the pending delivery of our 2014 X17A. My owners manual states that Honda does not recommend using a weight distribution hitch.

I quote the book "A weight distribution hitch is not recommended for your vehicle. An improperly adjusted weight distribution hitch may reduce handling, stability, and braking performance". This surprised me, but not my dealer who did strongly recommend an anti sway device.

I'm curious to learn if this is a recent statement from honda and if others here pull without a wdh and how they rate the experience. Our first pull will be about 250 miles from the dealership with a Reese friction anti sway device but without a wdh. I'm hoping it to be a comfortable, safe drive.
Can't comment on the chronology of the Honda recommendation (or lack thereof) but I can comment thus.

When I had my CUV (FWD Santa Fe with the 3.3L V6 / 3500 tow capacity) i installed the WDH because I wanted to restore the Santa Fe to a level attitude - the job of the WDH. It boggles my mind that Honda would not recommend using a WDH on such a short wheelbase vehicle - makes zero sense. As does impact on braking performance - garbage! If anything it will improve braking since it will restore load to the front axle which, for the tow vehicle, provides 70% of braking effort.

When I had my X17Z weighed this is what came out - total weight 3800# and hitch weight 600#. Now tell me, do you think you need a WDH? My current tow vehicle with its factory hitch is limited to 600# but 1100# with a WDH. In other words, Honda is bordering on irresponsible making a non-recommendation as they are, assuming that one will improperly adjust the WDH. It would be better to state what the capacities are given a properly distributed WDH, and caution that an improperly adjusted WDH could cause whatever problems they choose to state (directional instability for example).

Were I in your shoes and had to use the Pilot I would get a WDH. Personally, I would not use a Pilot, but that is a different discussion. Put it this way, after towing the new trailer home from the dealer my mind was made up and the TV in my signature was the result.

Payload is your limiting factor, especially if not using a WDH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aflyfishr View Post
The 2013 4WD pilot with two passengers is rated to tow 4500 lbs with 450 lbs of tongue weight. Jayco puts the X17A at 2795 lbs dry with 360 lbs at the tongue. I calculate actual weight will be around 3700 lbs with 370 at the ball. Which puts me at 82% of maximums recommended. As an engineer, I don't like to push the envelope so mathematically I'm expecting good results. We shall see.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
Engineer here as well. The rule of thumb for horizontal pulling capacity is 80% of the TV capacity, or 3600# so you are not far off there (have to leave margin for wind and hills, etc.) but the 3600# has to be weighed weights. Spec weights are worth the paper they are written on - they are just gross approximations. As mentioned before, payload on the Pilot will be your limiting factor. Even if your RV weighed 3600# camping-ready, your tongue weight should be 12% (or more) to counteract sway. That means you need at least 432# on the hitch (remember my weighed weight above?) - will the Pilot handle this with a full tank of fuel, people, animals if any, and cargo?

Getting close to the limits usually means that payload is the killer.
__________________

__________________
Regards,
Wayne
2014 Flagstaff Super Lite 27RLWS Emerald Ed. | Tekonsha Prodigy P3 brake controller
Ex. 2010 Jayco Jay Feather Ex-Port 17Z
2010 GMC Sierra 1500 SLE 5.3L Vortec V8 6-speed with Power Pack Plus Package | Hypertech Max Energy tune
wmoses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 02:52 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Jersey
Posts: 296
I swapped my Honda Ridgeline out for a Ford F-150 primarily b/c of Honda's stance on the WDH. I didn't want to be in a situation where I got in a accident and have my insurance company leave me on a island because the manual states what it does about the WDH. I can just see it now - "Sir your manual advises against using a WDH. We can see from the accident report that you used one. We're not going to cover this as you are going against the guidelines set in your owners manual. Sorry, have a nice day".

No thanks.

Plus, I just wanted something more substantial in front of my camper. Something with more authority to brake, something with more authority to pull. Plus my F-150 only gets 2 mpg worse than my Ridgeline so I didn't really care about that.

I got the 5.0 V8 version - too many weird things going on w/ the EcoBoosts.
__________________

s1njin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2015, 03:48 PM   #23
Member
 
BluJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Fort Wayne
Posts: 57
Send a message via ICQ to BluJay
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesway View Post
IS anyone pulling the X17Z with a Honda Pilot? I am looking at one and was wondering if anyone has any issues. It fits all the parameters in the manual but fiugred I would ask.


Also if anyone owns the Z17Z and can share there happiness and dissatisfactions with the trailer I would apperciate your thoughts and opinions.


jamie
We would have preferred to use a Pilot as TV for our X17Z, but our '13 Toyota Highlander (FWD not 4WD) is a better setup for towing using a WD hitch...and its rated at 5,000 lbs. I get 27 mpg without the trailer and about 11-12 with.
__________________

BluJay
Fort Wayne, Indiana
TV = 2013 Toyota Highlander
BluJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2015, 02:46 PM   #24
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: manteca
Posts: 8
My 4 x 4 Pilot did great on mini hills and flat lands but lost alot of tow capacity going over the Sierras..Same with my 2002 Ranger 4 x 4. Pulled it like nothing was back there, until I hit the steeps!
Wanted more power going up the hills cause I just could not see working my vehicles that hard so I sold the Ranger/ traded the Pilot for an F150..Love the decire feeling of moving forward and being able to go more then 25 MPH over the steeps.

Same gas mileage as both of the above vehicles- About 10 miles per gallon
Debsshopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2015, 03:44 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by aflyfishr View Post
I quote the book "A weight distribution hitch is not recommended for your vehicle. An improperly adjusted weight distribution hitch may reduce handling, stability, and braking performance".

I'm curious to learn if this is a recent statement from honda and if others here pull without a wdh and how they rate the experience. Our first pull will be about 250 miles from the dealership with a Reese friction anti sway device but without a wdh. I'm hoping it to be a comfortable, safe drive.
Not new, my 2006 Ridgeline manual has the same statement.

Consensus on the Ridgeline forums is that basically WDH aren't used in Japan and that Honda didn't want to bother so the lawyers had them add that statement. Note that it doesn't say don't use a properly adjusted one

Having pulled my 23B with and without a WDH, I can say that it's much better with one than without it. Most of the users on the ridgeline forums pulling heavy trailers use one.
__________________
Charles in SLC, UT (formerly in Cincinnati, OH.)
2014 F-150 XLT, 3.5EB , HDPP
2011 Jayco x23B
Blue Ox SwayPro WDH
2006 Honda Ridgeline (retired TV)
charles_cincy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2015, 04:04 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmoses View Post
Engineer here as well. The rule of thumb for horizontal pulling capacity is 80% of the TV capacity,
An actual automotive engineer? As I don't buy the above.

What would buy is that Honda engineered the vehicle to tow 5625# and then published an 80% limit of 4500#. Every engineer I know over engineers things. Including myself as a software engineer. But I do know some mechanical / materials engineers also

I can't see the lawyers allowing for anything less. My truck broke in half doing 95 on the interstate pulling 120% of it's rated capacity...well you're SOL. But if it brakes in half towing 99% of published capacity well then my lawyers will have a field day.

Lastly, Honda's followed the SAE standard, known as J2807 - “Performance Requirements for Determining Tow-Vehicle Gross Combination Weight Rating and Trailer Weight Rating,” for a long time. Unlike Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and Toyota. Unlike the others, the tow ratings for Honda's vehicles haven't been lowered once the new standard was adopted.
__________________
Charles in SLC, UT (formerly in Cincinnati, OH.)
2014 F-150 XLT, 3.5EB , HDPP
2011 Jayco x23B
Blue Ox SwayPro WDH
2006 Honda Ridgeline (retired TV)
charles_cincy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2015, 04:24 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 2,059
I'm not sure about any of that. Engineers may over engineer things, but the pencil pushers make them scale it back in production to save a few pennies. Car production is a far different world from software.

I can tell you from personal experience that towing any travel trailer at close to your rated capacity is fine, and it'll pull, and it's perfectly safe. Some will say "it tows like a dream". That statement is usually made by folks who have never towed with reserve capacity. I've knowingly towed two different setups at close to capacity. It was safe, it worked fine, but it was not "towing like a dream". It pushed both vehicles to their limits. And that's why the limits are set. In both instances we decided we wanted to drive more than a few hours and do some mountains.

What I can also tell you is that it is a night and day difference to tow a trailer with a 20% or better margin. Far easier on the TV, far more relaxing. And I can tow in mountains.

Please bear in mind, I'm not bashing your use of a Ridgeline. Choice of TV is often dictated by circumstances, which is where I was twice. I'm just pointing out that there is a lot of wisdom in leaving a healthy margin between your capacities and actual weight towed.
__________________
Chuck
2013 Jayco Jayfeather X20 E, 2008 GMC Sierra 1500 Crew Cab Z71 SLE
DocBrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2015, 05:23 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
bucko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Mary
Posts: 347
I just don't get it. If folks come to a realization that their TV is straining in towing a TT, then why would they continue? In my case, my wife of 35 years is much too important to me to risk towing something that my TV is not supposed to tow (weight wise). If I "strain" at hills, then that is telling you something; don't!


Not to mention the dangers you can and are imposing on those you share the roads with. We have lots of lawyers chasing ambulances these days.
__________________
2015 Jayco Jay Featherlight SLX16XRB (TT)
2007 Ford F150 Tow Vehicle (TV)
bucko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2015, 05:37 AM   #29
Site Team
 
norty1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,056
Many don't consider the other side of the coin, which is just as important. If you are approaching or over the tow limits, you can be sure that the stopping power is at or over it's limits.

Lives are at stake and some of them are in the vehicle with you. Don't take chances just to make a point!
__________________

__________________
Moderator
2011 351RLTS Eagle, Mor/Ryde suspension & pin box
06 F350 Lariat PSD, SRW, LB, CC, EGR delete kit, 16K DrawTite hitch, Timbrens, TST TPMS

Can't find what you're looking on JOF? Try:Jayco Owners Forum Custom Google Search
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain
norty1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia State Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2002-2016 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.