Black Water Flush

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by Florida Ranger

Let us know how your case of diarrhea works out for you.

I was wondering if that topic would be mentioned. Does anyone have a story or article link showing someone getting diarrhea or e coli from using their water hose on their black flush?

Anyone?

I'm definitely interested in reading about that infection.

[RFactor1]

I did not even think anyone would consider using the fresh water hose to flush out the black water tank. I'm in the majority of those who have two separate and different colored hoses for each task.

[groutman]

then i use a 3rd hose to connect to the maceator hose when i dump at home

[TaftCoach]

Originally Posted by RetiredOne

Why can't you use the same water hose?

1) Most rigs have a backflow preventer or a vacuum breaker on that flush line. The water line to the black tank is plumbed higher than the tank, so gravity can do it's thing.

2) There's no back pressure coming from the black tank, so it's not pressurized. How can it force contaminated water back into the flush line.

I believe you can use the same water line, and if you're concerned, just flush water and let it run through the hose when you disconnect it from the black flush.

Most campgrounds here use non potable water at the dump stations. So you would be flushing with non potable water then drinking through it.

Saving $15 and a little room in my storage compartment doesn't seem worth it. But if the norm in your area is potable water and you want to conserve, it's your choice.

[Florida Ranger]

Retired One,,,,,Yes my experience was a real crappy one, Just take it from me I will allways from now on use a dedicated hose to flush my Blackwater tank. You should do what you feel comfortable doing, when using your RV, I do....

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by TaftCoach

Most campgrounds here use non potable water at the dump stations. So you would be flushing with non potable water then drinking through it.

So, you'd be using non potable water and the provided hose to flush your black tank at a dump station? Why would that be a problem? We weren't talking about filling your fresh water tank there.

What about when still at the actual campsite, why can't you use the water coming from the hose bib to flush the black tank?

Also, like I asked earlier, since I still can't understand how water can run uphill from the black tank, through the backflow preventer, and then into the water line that is pressurized at 40+ psi of water pressure? Can anyone help me out here?

Saving $15 and a little room in my storage compartment doesn't seem worth it.

It has nothing to do with money. I'm just trying to get a technical reason how it can possibly happen. So far, no one has provided any type of explanation.

Maybe it's just the engineer in me, and decades of plumbing experience, but besides the Ewwww factor, I can't think of how sewerage in the black tank could ever backwash into the water hose.

Even if somehow the black tank could be pressurized (no idea how), and forced sewerage back in the flush line, it would run out the vacuum breaker/backflow preventer. If there was a possibility of that happening, why would Jayco install that vacuum breaker inside a cabinet, or in my case, inside the wardrobe cabinet? Wouldn't they make sure that contaminated sewerage wouldn't end up inside the rig, if this had the chance of happening?

[TCNashville]

Originally Posted by RetiredOne

I think this is a Ewwww topic for most. I think, it's more of an emotional response versus a physical possibility.
So, I believe your water line contamination from the black tank flush connector is a physical impossibility.

First of all, I'm in the same camp as you on thinking that black water getting into the flush line is a physical impossibility but.......Consider this scenario, a lot of us close our black tank valve after initial flushing to refill the tank to flush it again. So lets say you got distracted and let the black tank totally refill. It would back up against the ball valve/seal in the toilet as well as the vent stack and the flush line. As it rises higher in the vent stack it would also rise higher in the flush line causing undue pressure against the vacuum valve on the flush line possibly causing failure and into the flush hose that you're using. The flaw in this scenario that I'm unsure about is whether the ball valve/seal in the toilet would prevent/allow water to pass against it therefor flooding the toilet first. Just sayin.

[Florida Ranger]

I only use a dedicated flush hose when Not at a dump station . I know water does not flow uphill. But after my original fresh water hose crappy experience I have allways used a dedicated Blackwater flush hose. And so far no more bad experience with Direaha....

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by TCNashville

First of all, I'm in the same camp as you on thinking that black water getting into the flush line is a physical impossibility but.......Consider this scenario, a lot of us close our black tank valve after initial flushing to refill the tank to flush it again. So lets say you got distracted and let the black tank totally refill. It would back up against the ball valve/seal in the toilet as well as the vent stack and the flush line. As it rises higher in the vent stack it would also rise higher in the flush line causing undue pressure against the vacuum valve on the flush line possibly causing failure and into the flush hose that you're using. The flaw in this scenario that I'm unsure about is whether the ball valve/seal in the toilet would prevent/allow water to pass against it therefor flooding the toilet first. Just sayin.

That's definitely a good possibility, and one I was thinking of. I've actually forgot one time, but didn't overfill the tank, but it got close. Even then, with the bowl flap closed, the water could either back up the vent, or push back against the incoming flush water pressure. At best, it could only equalize against the flow from the water line, but not push back into the water line. It would come out the vent at that point. So, how would it make it all the way back to the water hose??

Hmmm, maybe the vacuum breaker would give at that point. As soon as the water pressure was turned off, the vacuum beaker would open, and the back pressure would drain there........ now that would be a mess....

There's another question, does the black tank dump valve have a pressure rating? If the black tank gets pressurized by the water line, I would think the slide valve should hold the pressure..... anyone know? My guess would be the vent would still be the exit point.

Thanks for the response...

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by Florida Ranger

But after my original fresh water hose crappy experience I have allways used a dedicated Blackwater flush hose. And so far no more bad experience with Direaha....

What actually happened? I don't remember reading about your experience.

[madmaxmutt]

Originally Posted by RetiredOne

Also, like I asked earlier, since I still can't understand how water can run uphill from the black tank, through the backflow preventer, and then into the water line that is pressurized at 40+ psi of water pressure? Can anyone help me out here?

Water doesn't have to flow uphill, all it has to do is become contaminated on the hose bib. I provided that real possibility in post #17. And even though we don't often camp with hookups, at this point, I hope I never follow you in a campsite.

[madmaxmutt]

For the record, I also have and use a separate blow out valve for winterizing the black tank flush.

[LeMoeCND]

Contamination does not necessarily need to come from the black tank. There’s likely enough dirty hands moving waste organisms from one end to the other every time some does a dump. Unless you thoroughly disinfect the source water connection point and valve you risk contamination. Some people do a good job, some not so much. The most likely mode of entry is when you wrap your dirty hands around to disconnect your hose from the water source as one forgot to take off the gloves, clean one’s hands or the spout or the valve. I can’t take that risk.

LeMoeCND

[Midnightmoon]

Originally Posted by madmaxmutt

For the record, I also have and use a separate blow out valve for winterizing the black tank flush.

I do also. I also keep my fresh water hoses and fittings in a separate compartment from any sewer related items. My black water flush hoses, extra RhinoFlex fittings, etc. are in the driver's side front compartment of mine. The fresh water stuff is on the passenger side.

[TaftCoach]

I seem to run into unthreaded dump site hoses. The intent seems to be to rinse the area and possibly your sewer hose but not hook to the flush. But we seem to be in a drought much of the year.

[CAG]

Originally Posted by madmaxmutt

Water doesn't have to flow uphill, all it has to do is become contaminated on the hose bib. I provided that real possibility in post #17. And even though we don't often camp with hookups, at this point, I hope I never follow you in a campsite.

I think my observation in #16 is along that same line. Contamination does not need to come from waste backing up a hose line. Any bit of contamination on the end of the hose used to flush can/will be transferred to the fresh water tank, or the internal plumbing if you are using city water. (unhook your black dump hose and then handle any hose).

Like some here have said, it is your choice as to one hose or two. Do whatever suits you but I have seen how careless people are at dump stations as well as when caring for their own rigs. There are many who don't know or think about it and with the boom in the RV/camping scene that number of the uneducated increases daily.

Oh, and to answer the question about where the black water tank contents go if you overfill while flushing. There are a number of threads on the Heartland site where people did that and it came up and out the vent on the roof.

[Marmot]

Originally Posted by Camper Bob

When flushing my black water tank, do I need to use a separate hose, or can I use my portable water hose?

Use your portable water hose, but attach a rotating cleaning wand to the end. They are available at Amazon and Walmart. These wands are the only way to get your black tank clean if you don’t have a factory-installed wash-out. Squirt some Dawn or LA Awesome cleaner down the toilet for excellent cleaning and let the wand work for 2 minutes or so.

[Packerbacker_TX]

Originally Posted by Camper Bob

When flushing my black water tank, do I need to use a separate hose, or can I use my portable water hose?

My rig came with it's own black tank flush valve. You connect a hose to the water inlet area of the camper and it feeds the water into the black tank like a sprinkler system. That sprays water into the tank and allows you to open the valve and "flush" the goodies out.



My hose came with a uni-directional flow adapter (back flow preventer). This means if I fell asleep while filling the black tank, the water would never flow back through the hose feeding the water. Not to mention, the actual water pressure from the hose. That would be the least of your problems, because you'd have stuff all over the place and it'd smell like you lived in a toilet.


Ok, so for myself - I have an orange hose I can use to flush the black tank but rarely use. I typically use my white hose as it's simply water in the tank to me. When I flush, I let the water flow in for a minute or so, then dump (open valve) - rinse/repeat - until the water is clear again. When I'm done, everything gets a rinse with clean water. I always blow out the white hose when I'm done and I always flow clean water through it before every use. We also use an inline water filter, so I'm not worried in the least. You're more likely to slap some rubber gloves on to do the job and then touch your face while wearing the gloves than contaminating your hose.



Hope this helps. Good Luck



p.s. Beware of the Poop Pyramid!

[Anazeteo]

Universal rule: never use sanitary ( clean ) hose for waste tanks. I use a white hose for my clean water and a black hose for my septic tank. That way you won’t confuse the two hoses.

[Jagiven]

Originally Posted by RetiredOne

I was wondering if that topic would be mentioned. Does anyone have a story or article link showing someone getting diarrhea or e coli from using their water hose on their black flush?

Anyone?

I'm definitely interested in reading about that infection.

I do know a family who camps a lot, who got Ecoli, who is not as careful as I am with my hoses. But they do not know for fact where it came from.

Originally Posted by RFactor1

I did not even think anyone would consider using the fresh water hose to flush out the black water tank. I'm in the majority of those who have two separate and different colored hoses for each task.

Last time I was out camping, while at the dump station, the guy (new to campers) in front of me was flushing his tank using his drinking water hose, The sign said non potable water. The guy was wearing rubber gloves for the process. But had no clue why to use a separate hose.