New class c wandering and darting

[Johnynorthland]

Originally Posted by RetiredOne

And that's the part that really pisses me off.
Why is it, after the original high cost of these rigs, do we have to add all these upgrades just to feel safe driving these rigs? How come, after all the upgrades Jayco puts in, they drive like rolling dumpsters until all these suspension upgrades are completed? Why should it be the buyer's responsibility to do the right thing, and not Jayco's?

The worst part, after all this is known, why do consumers let Jayco get away with it... It's absolutely nuts!!

I hear you loud and clear retired one! I test drove mine for about half an hour. It definitely wasn’t long enough. Like I said this is my third RV. The sprinter C I had could of used a little upgrading to the suspension but wasn’t nearly as bad as this Ford E450! My class B was just a van so no issues there,That thing drove like a large SUV! Wife hated the size!.

I guess it’s just the nature of the beast it’s all comes down to Marketing and making money. Next time when I buy it’s going to be one heck of a long of a test drive!

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

Why did you buy it after the test drive?

I didn't drive it on the highway during the test drive, just back roads and mid speed roads for a short distance. I rented a Chateau to see if this whole camping thing was something we wanted to do before buying this rig. It was the biggest POS, and if that was the only choice, I wouldn't have bought anything. I did some research on the Chateaus, and saw what other people recommended to fix it's issues.

Jayco's big claim is their J-Ride system, which fixes some of the Chateau's issues. But they didn't go far enough. Plus, this is my first RV, so I didn't know what I didn't know about the Ford chassis. I do now.

I'm just glad I hammered the dealer for an additional discount of $3K to $4K off the price. Gave me some cushion to fix these issues.

[Harvard]

Personally, I do not think the caster setting is getting as much
attention it deserves in this thread.

Here is a link to my experience circa 2010, over 105,000 reads ago...

E350/E450 Handling Problems are caused by too little + CASTER

[drmike961]

Originally Posted by Harvard

Personally, I do not think the caster setting is getting as much
attention it deserves in this thread.

Here is a link to my experience circa 2010, over 105,000 reads ago...

E350/E450 Handling Problems are caused by too little + CASTER

Harvard, even though my rig is shorter I am considering an alignment and do not want to be talked out of the required positive camber setting. I am thinking of following your advice and purchasing the sleeves to bring with me to the shop "asking them to install these sleeves SET TO 0.0 Degrees CAMBER and +2.0 Degrees CASTER then align the TOE IN to be within TOE spec while accepting the resulting CAMBER and CASTER AS IS!" just as you stated.

Do you know the part# for the adjustable sleeves for a 2019 E450 and where to purchase?? I am having difficulty finding any numbers other than ingall 59400, but not sure if that is an old part# or the part# for older units. Also can't find but one place to purchase if it still is indeed the right part.

Edit: Or do I need to take it in twice? First to measure and make sure my caster settings are below 5.0 before I buy any parts (as I just read you mentioned in the past).

[Harvard]

Dorman Products bought out Ingalls Engineering
Ingalls 59400 are now Dorman 545-187

Dorman 545-187 are the same as:
Moog-K8986
NAPA 158986
SPC 794

Ford ships all E350/E450 cut aways with identical fixed, non adjustable caster/camber collars, "one size fits all". You can recognize these collars because they are keyed and cannot be rotated. They are marked "F8UA-AA 0+.25" on the passenger side and "E97A-CA +0-0" on the drivers side.

If the RV builder never changed the Ford keyed collars, the result is:

If the final RV build is nose down one degree then the runtime caster will PROBABLY be about +3.5 degrees. These units could have a real wandering problem.

If the final RV build is nose level then the runtime caster is PROBABLY about +4.5 degrees. These units could probably be indifferent but I would add +2.0 degrees caster anyway.

If the final RV build is nose up one degree then the runtime caster will PROBABLY be about +5.5 degrees.

You can determine the chassis nose angle by using a tape measure to
measure the chassis RV floor to Earth at the front and rear of the box.

One inch in 60 inches would be 1 degree. So for example,
if the RV box front to rear is 132 inches AND the rear is 2 inches
higher then the front:

Nose Angle = (2 x 60) / 132 = 0.9 Degrees nose down so the front
end caster is going to be about +3.6 Degrees.

[drmike961]

Originally Posted by Harvard

Dorman Products bought out Ingalls Engineering
Ingalls 59400 are now Dorman 545-187

Dorman 545-187 are the same as:
Moog-K8986
NAPA 158986
SPC 794

Ford ships all E350/E450 cut aways with identical fixed, non adjustable caster/camber collars, "one size fits all". You can recognize these collars because they are keyed and cannot be rotated. They are marked "F8UA-AA 0+.25" on the passenger side and "E97A-CA +0-0" on the drivers side.

If the RV builder never changed the Ford keyed collars, the result is:

If the final RV build is nose down one degree then the runtime caster will PROBABLY be about +3.5 degrees. These units could have a real wandering problem.

If the final RV build is nose level then the runtime caster is PROBABLY about +4.5 degrees. These units could probably be indifferent but I would add +2.0 degrees caster anyway.

If the final RV build is nose up one degree then the runtime caster will PROBABLY be about +5.5 degrees.

You can determine the chassis nose angle by using a tape measure to
measure the chassis RV floor to Earth at the front and rear of the box.

One inch in 60 inches would be 1 degree. So for example,
if the RV box front to rear is 132 inches AND the rear is 2 inches
higher then the front:

Nose Angle = (2 x 60) / 132 = 0.9 Degrees nose down so the front
end caster is going to be about +3.6 Degrees.

Thanks for the input. Are the newer year (2019 in my case) chassis using that same part# ?? Most everything I can find to read were 2013 and older units. If I can find some level ground I will measure it to at least get a ballpark of what I am dealing with. Then try to find someone who will actually give me the alignment I need as opposed to the one they want to give. My quotes over the phone have not gone well yet but I will keep searching.

[Harvard]

You need only look at the top of the upper ball joint to verify nothing has
changed on the Ford assembly line. Here is a link to some pictures for comparison.

99 Super Duty Moog k8986 install with pics (Add + caster) - iRV2 Forums

Notice the tab in the pinch bolt cavity in the bottom left picture.

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by RetiredOne

Why is it, after the original high cost of these rigs, do we have to add all these upgrades just to feel safe driving these rigs? How come, after all the upgrades Jayco puts in, they drive like rolling dumpsters until all these suspension upgrades are completed? Why should it be the buyer's responsibility to do the right thing, and not Jayco's?

The worst part, after all this is known, why do consumers let Jayco get away with it... It's absolutely nuts!!

Because not all of the rigs run like rolling dumpsters.


We test drove a 2014 Greyhawk 31FK and it was terrifying. Then we found a 2016 Greyhawk 31FK and it was fine.


32' and it drives like a regular minivan.


Wife can drive it, my 19 year old can drive it.


Maybe Jayco made some significant changes between 2014 and 2016 but more likely I'll bet it was something that Moryde / Jayco messed up during the build.

[Bullitt6283]

Originally Posted by pconroy

Because not all of the rigs run like rolling dumpsters.
We test drove a 2014 Greyhawk 31FK and it was terrifying. Then we found a 2016 Greyhawk 31FK and it was fine.
32' and it drives like a regular minivan.
Wife can drive it, my 19 year old can drive it.
Maybe Jayco made some significant changes between 2014 and 2016 but more likely I'll bet it was something that Moryde / Jayco messed up during the build.

I'm not being snarky, I am seriously just curious... If there is a difference which allows yours to drive like a minivan, I'd like to know what it is. I've done many things to my 2016 and although I'm not constantly sawing at the wheel anymore, there's still room for improvement.
.

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by pconroy

Because not all of the rigs run like rolling dumpsters.

We test drove a 2014 Greyhawk 31FK and it was terrifying. Then we found a 2016 Greyhawk 31FK and it was fine.

Maybe Jayco made some significant changes between 2014 and 2016 but more likely I'll bet it was something that Moryde / Jayco messed up during the build.

I drive a 2019. Did Jayco/Moryde revert back to the 2014 design plans?

Originally Posted by Bullitt6283

I'm not being snarky, I am seriously just curious... If there is a difference which allows yours to drive like a minivan, I'd like to know what it is. I've done many things to my 2016 and although I'm not constantly sawing at the wheel anymore, there's still room for improvement.
.

I wonder that too. Maybe the previous owner did all the upgrades to the 2016 before he bought it, and he gets the benefit of them?