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Old 06-22-2020, 09:37 AM   #61
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The virus lives longer on hard surfaces than porous surfaces, but it really doesn't matter. This virus can't jump or crawl, so the only way it get's into you is if you inhale it, touch your nose, mouth, eye, or other mucous membrane, or get it into a break in your skin. Wiping things down is a good idea, but it's un-needed work as long as you strictly enforce the basics on yourself. It does ride the water vapor you exhale, so avoid people without masks and do the social distancing. I'm not saying it's easy. I keep forgeting my mask in the car, but I go back and get it. I have a medical grade mask and it gets hot. The whole things a PIA, but then I remember how much my handicapped daughter needs me and I wear it.
virus .02-.5 microns... masks 10-20 microns...
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Old 06-22-2020, 09:39 AM   #62
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It probably could be 22 million cases by the time it's all over, actually I would expect a lot more, if they get a accurate antibody tests.

But since you like numbers, here are some fun facts for you. There was an outbreak on the Theodore Roosevelt aircraft carrier, here are the numbers:

Crew number: 4500
Positive cases: 1156
Hospitalized: 3
Deaths: 1

So tell me, on a ship where so many people are in such tight contact, why weren't there more deaths and serious cases?
because only one had a pre-existing condition...
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Old 06-22-2020, 09:42 AM   #63
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virus .02-.5 microns... masks 10-20 microns...
Except that if you wear a mask and are unknowingly infected, the mask does a decent job of containing the majority of particles in the mask, and slowing the rest down to mitigate the spread. See the link I posted above.
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Old 06-22-2020, 09:46 AM   #64
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Except that if you wear a mask and are unknowingly infected, the mask does a decent job of containing the majority of particles in the mask, and slowing the rest down to mitigate the spread. See the link I posted above.
whatever lets you sleep better I guess...show me the data and the study that was done to prove this statement...

and the virus stops and drops at 6 feet..
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Old 06-22-2020, 09:59 AM   #65
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It's not the virus that is stopped, it's the spit you emit as you speak. The spit contains the virus. And yes, you do spit as you speak.
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Old 06-22-2020, 10:00 AM   #66
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whatever lets you sleep better I guess...show me the data and the study that was done to prove this statement...

and the virus stops and drops at 6 feet..
Of course it doesn't necessarily stop at 6 feet. That's an over simplification and you well know it is. Masks are a mitigation. Not a prevention, just like not touching your face after touching surfaces. Ask yourself, how is you think that scientists are wrong, and people who post anti mask propaganda on Twitter, often who barely gradated HS, are right?

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/wha...eal-with-masks

And just one of the references from the post.

https://medium.com/better-humans/wha...ks-5f3c27a18cc
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Old 06-22-2020, 10:06 AM   #67
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Except that if you wear a mask and are unknowingly infected, the mask does a decent job of containing the majority of particles in the mask, and slowing the rest down to mitigate the spread. See the link I posted above.
Did you actually read that article (opinion piece by one person)? It was filled with disclaimers about the (lack of) effectiveness of masks.

Do you really think what you're seeing people wear in stores, calling it a mask, and the way they all fit, is really doing something? Even your "expert" in that blog post states as much.
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Old 06-22-2020, 10:12 AM   #68
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Did you actually read that article (opinion piece by one person)? It was filled with disclaimers about the (lack of) effectiveness of masks.

Do you really think what you're seeing people wear in stores, calling it a mask, and the way they all fit, is really doing something? Even your "expert" in that blog post states as much.
Yes. I did. Several times. And I knew you would pick that apart because it doesn't agree with your thinking. You bash sources like MSN, and rightfully so, but dismiss a scientist? You didn't really read it, or think about it, you only looked for the parts that you could discredit. Nothing of course will change your mind. You also are trying to simply if to suit your own view. Again, a mask is not a prevention. It's a mitigation. No scientist is saying otherwise. And that's the point of the article. And did you look at his credentials? Sorry but I put more stock in his professional opinion than self acclaimed experts in forum posts.
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Old 06-22-2020, 11:16 AM   #69
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virus .02-.5 microns... masks 10-20 microns...

The individual virus, yes...but it's highly unlikely that a single virus would be floating about in the air, all by itself.
The big risk is from " particulate matter"... droplets of moisture, spit, mucus etc, expelled when people sneeze, cough, sweat, which contain and sustain the virus.
Those are large enough to be stopped by a standard 2.5 micron filter
MOST will be caught by a simple cloth mask.

Like many things, it's a game of statistics. Each precaution that you take, improves your odds.
Short of living in a sterile balloon, there is no perfect solution, that's why it's misleading to quote isolated numbers. While they may be strictly accurate, they don't give the whole picture .
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Old 06-22-2020, 11:21 AM   #70
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Well...
Attached Thumbnails
20200622_101921_copy_4032x1416.jpg  
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Old 06-22-2020, 11:33 AM   #71
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Well...
That seems to the problem with both ends of the extreme thinking.
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Old 06-22-2020, 02:00 PM   #72
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Yes. I did. Several times. And I knew you would pick that apart because it doesn't agree with your thinking. You bash sources like MSN, and rightfully so, but dismiss a scientist?
Pick what apart? It's his own words and opinion, that he stated that multiple times. He's saying masks are marginal, and there are multiple reasons why they might not work.

Dismiss a scientist? Really? Did you read the FIRST line of his home page? Here it is:

...."What you need to know up front:
  • I am not claiming to be an expert in coronaviruses, medicine, or preparedness.
  • I mostly write these articles for my family, friends, and students, who value my advice."
He reads articles written by others, then regurgitates them back in a blog post with his own opinion and style.

Quote:
Nothing of course will change your mind. You also are trying to simply if to suit your own view.
Nothing a single blogger writes out of his spare bedroom.

Quote:
And did you look at his credentials? Sorry but I put more stock in his professional opinion than self acclaimed experts in forum posts.
Yeah, I did. He's a PhD, NOT an MD, which means he likes to takes classes in college. Writing blog posts doesn't make someone an expert. He's a professor teaching in college. If he's that special and talented, he should have his own business, not a guaranteed academic position.

You wanted to know my background and where my point of view comes from. It comes from posted, verifiable data.

I've studied the data from South Korea
I've studied the data from Italy
I've studied the data from France
I've studied the data from Spain
I've studied the data from New York
I've studied the data from New Jersey
I've studied the data from the US
I've studied the data from John Hopkins
I've studied the data from the Diamond Princess cruise ship

I've studied the data from the Theodore Roosevelt aircraft carrier

I didn't study the data from China, as we all know how suspect it is.

If you've also noticed, I'm the ONLY one who's posted data, facts, charts, and reference information from the actual sources.

Everyone else, they post their opinion (kinda like your blogger friend) or parrot the MSM or post funny cartoons. Apparently they're considered scientific, right?
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Old 06-22-2020, 02:14 PM   #73
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I have the RIGHT not to wear a mask, if you want to then that is your right, otherwise stay at home,


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Iím confused. How is wearing a mask taking away your rights. Do you not have the right to free speech, vote for your government, etc.? How is the request/requirement different than say requiring certain people who have less than ideal eyesight to wear glasses when they drive, or require me to even take a test to get a license to drive a car? The fact that I have to have a drivers license to legally drive a car or heck, even requiring me to have insurance before I can get a license plate on my car only goes to fill the pockets of the rich insurance company CEOs. Maybe I shouldnít pay taxes, or not speed, what is a speed limit but governmental controls on what I can do and what I cannot in my car that I paid for (wait, did I pay taxes on that?!?).

The virus does not show symptoms in a lot of people and most do survive; however, for the good of your fellow human and protect the more vulnerable either in your circle or in the circle of those you interact with, wearing a mask as a courtesy is a small price to pay.
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Old 06-22-2020, 02:54 PM   #74
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If you've also noticed, I'm the ONLY one who's posted data, facts, charts, and reference information from the actual sources.

Everyone else, they post their opinion (kinda like your blogger friend) or parrot the MSM or post funny cartoons. Apparently they're considered scientific, right?
Gee, what is up with you man? Here again your post is nothing more than to rip it all apart. You just can't deal with a different view point without a line by line analysis trying to destroy it. I didn't challenge any data you posted previously so why are you even bringing that up? Others were challenging you on that, not me. I don't disagree with you on many points you brought up in previous posts.

I respect the guy because he's humble enough to recognize his limitations. His opinion is an educated one. He's taking real science and making it easy to understand. Instead of ripping apart his credentials, help us understand what you consider wrong or inaccurate about his posts?

The trouble with data, it's not easy for everyone to understand. Analysis of data takes time and it can be confusing. I appreciate what you've learned and that you want to share it here, but ease up a bit on hammering others with it. You're not helping your cause.

Bottom line is the post I showed was about masks. Not data. Simple science and logic about how masks, i.e. filters work. Show us why what is in that post is wrong or inaccurate.
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Old 06-22-2020, 02:58 PM   #75
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Old 06-22-2020, 04:19 PM   #76
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Sometimes threads need to be locked.

I see there are a number of websites where this topic is welcomed.

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Old 06-22-2020, 04:50 PM   #77
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Has anyone seen any reports on how this has affected the homeless communities? I never see anything on the news about them. Not being sarcastic, just seeking information.
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Old 06-22-2020, 07:51 PM   #78
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Regarding the MSM...

Has anyone noticed the MSM is breathlessly reporting new cases in the Southern states, but is conveniently leaving out the hospitalization and death numbers?

Why would they do that?

I've been searching to try and find those important numbers, to really see if hospital cases are ramping up equally, but it's not happening... Just higher case numbers.

Someone want to answer that?
Kind of funny that you follow M S N so much and yet you hate the reporting. They have many reports from Faux news and others. Their reporting of facts is rated very high. Why don't you follow Newsmax or Faux news. Their reporting is much much lower
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Old 06-22-2020, 08:24 PM   #79
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