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Old 04-17-2016, 10:58 PM   #21
BCK
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It gives you the tt GVW. When you subtract the total of just the TV without the tt from the total of all axles including the tt it equals the trailer GVW. The wdh has no effect on the total weight of the entire rig only on how it is distributed accross the axles.
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Old 04-17-2016, 11:30 PM   #22
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Ok. Time to eat a slice or two of humble pie.

Post above edited to take out comments about tongue weight. (Next time I will fact check before posting instead of after). Tongue weight is not changed by a wdh only how the total payload is distributed accross the axles.
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Old 04-18-2016, 03:32 AM   #23
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BCK & need a vacation....

Both of you gentlemen are right on points of the discussion. Obviously I wouldn't do this process with trucks waiting to use the scale. If 1 pulled up, I'd go to the truck driver and tell him I'll be out of the way in a couple of minutes, and I don't think that would be a problem. I wouldn't leave the trailer at all. The longest time would be rehooking the chains.

The CAT scales are definitely long enough to put the trailer jack on pad 1 and the axles on pad 2. That would give the tongue weight and the TT axle weight, combined to give the trailer gross weight. I would then go to a space and drop the trailer, and just weigh the truck, to get a solid gross and axle weight of it. I'd double check the numbers, but I shouldn't see any difference between them.

BCK, a WDH, does affect axle weights, that's the whole reason for using them. If you look at my weight ticket, my steer axle is over by 20#, and my other axles are way under. By keeping the trailer loaded EXACTLY the same way, the only solution would be to add a link to the number of links attached to the bar under load. That will add weight to the drive axle and take weight off the steer, and add a little to the trailer. I've got some pics of the TV & TT, and you can see the nose of the trailer is a tad high. I'm going to add that link next time I hook up, and see how it looks. I think the numbers will be better balanced, and it should pull a little better.
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Scale ticket.jpg   IMG_1084.jpg  
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Old 04-18-2016, 03:46 AM   #24
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I'd like to thank the both of you for adding to this. It made me aware of some miscalculations of weights that I didn't realize until just now. I may be adjusting the WDH more than I first thought.

Guess I need a better pencil sharpener
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Old 04-18-2016, 07:55 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by BCK View Post
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It gives you the tt GVW. When you subtract the total of just the TV without the tt from the total of all axles including the tt it equals the trailer GVW. The wdh has no effect on the total weight of the entire rig only on how it is distributed accross the axles.
BCK,

That definitely is one way to get the total loaded trailer weight, no doubt. I know you edited the post in regards to figuring the tw, it was only the tw I was referring to. I started using using the gross and net wording at times because there have been some who believe the tw is that weight on the tv once the wd bars are latched up. Whether it's right or wrong, in my crazy thinking if you look at it that way, there is actually a gross tw, as weighed by a scale under the coupler, and the net tw which is what is added to the tv axles with the wd bars latched up. Is one way or the other right, not sure. Or maybe both ways are correct due to what is looked at when checking all axle weights, gcw, tw, etc.

Again, my crazy thought is when posting actual loaded trailer weights (even though we all pack differently to an extent) is to help those asking about how much trailer "X" weighs loaded, it may be a little misleading by only posting the "net" tw, if that makes sense. I have always read and understood you should still go by the gross tw in regards to you receiver hitch rating.

Kev & BCK,

All here to learn in one way or another, right! All good. Just trying to post as I understand things.
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Old 04-18-2016, 08:09 AM   #26
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kevcarr59,

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevcarr59 View Post
snip...... the only solution would be to add a link to the number of links attached to the bar under load. That will add weight to the drive axle and take weight off the steer, and add a little to the trailer.....snip
I believe you may find by relieving the WDH spring bar load (increasing chain links "under tension")..., this would result in a little TT axle(s) weight reduction (gross TT weight reduction).

Bob
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Old 04-18-2016, 08:32 AM   #27
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Kev,

Adding a link under tension will reduce the steer axle, increase the drive axle, and as Rustic posted, decrease the ta a little. That may get you to level, but if not you may need to drop the hitch head a hole in the shank.
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WDH SET UP. HOW A WDH WORKS. CAT SCALE HOW TO.
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:28 AM   #28
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Great discussion. Great to hear different thoughts. Here is a really good article from etrailer about how wd hitches work.

https://www.etrailer.com/faq-weightdistribution.aspx#Choosing
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Old 04-18-2016, 02:25 PM   #29
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Tongue Weight

The scenario I used with my son with us was to add about the max I would EXPECT to load into the truck cab. When the shop guy set up the WDH he did the measurements and everything supposedly checked out. With my trucking experience, and seeing that the TT nose is a little high, adding a some weight toward the rear compartment, and adding a link on the bar chain, should drop the nose a little bit, and add some weight to the drive axle.

TRUCK:

GFAWR: 3100#
GRAWR: 3660#
GVWR : 6600#
TOW CAPACITY: 8000#
GCWR : 13000#

TRAILER:

YELLOW TAG EMPTY WEIGHT: 4685#
GROSS WEIGHT: 6500#

Looking at the scale ticket, I'm 20# over on the steer, 200# light on drive, and way under on TA. I don't know if I'll be able to take enough off steer to be able to add a significant amount to trailer & drive axle. My truck, as it's in the picture, doesn't squat much, and I think I want to keep the ball height where it is. If I go down a hole, about 1", and then add some drive axle weight by adding a link, it might be too big of a swing???

Thoughts????

My target numbers are 3000# FA, 3500#, DA, and about 58/5900#TA...

REALISTIC???

Might be an interesting conversation around the campfire with a moderate amount of cold, adult beverages.....
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Old 04-18-2016, 05:07 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevcarr59 View Post
snip........ My target numbers are 3000# FA, 3500#, DA, and about 58/5900#TA... [I]REALISTIC???........ snip
kevcarr59,

Unless I missed it in your posts, I don't see reference to your TV's Front Axle weight with the TT "unhitched"......, because this would be your TV's front axle target weight with the TT "hitched" and WDH engaged.

I guess my question is how does the TV's front axle CAT weight of 3,120lbs under "hitched" with WDH engaged compare to your TV's front axle weight when "unhitched"....., or is the 3,000lb target weight you mentioned the "unhitched" FA weight?

Just a little unusual reaching the GFAWR before the GRAWR......, or might just be the nature of the particular 2WD suspension (in lieu of 4WD).

I assume you are aware of the CAT scale 40lb plus/minus tolerance.

Bob
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