WFCO and AGM batteries

[jhaan]

Does anyone have experience successfully charging AGM batteries with the stock WFCO controller? Since I purchased new I do not want to swap out the controller yet if I do not have to. But given that it will not charge higher than 13.6 V, I wonder if I am stuck going with flooded batteries. I understand flooded has its advantages, but being new to this I would rather go AGM to eliminate one thing to worry about.

Plan is boondocking with 200 W solar to support 2x6 V GC2. Seems that AGM want a higher charge than 13.6 V. While this trailer sits in my driveway at 13.2 V with the WFCO, is it going to hurt the batteries because they are not being t(r)ickled at a higher voltage? Trojan, for example, wants more than 13.2 V.

Thanks in advance--I have been asking around and received some great feedback. Now I am to the point I need to know whether AGM will work with this WFCO before I pull the trigger on the batteries.

[Mustang65]

Originally Posted by jhaan

…..But given that it will not charge higher than 13.6 V, I wonder if I am stuck going with flooded batteries. I understand flooded has its advantages, but being new to this I would rather go AGM to eliminate one thing to worry about.

I guess that going with AGM would be one thing less to worry about.

Granted,

- They both can only be discharged to 12.2VDC (battery 50% rule).
- They both weigh in at around 65 pounds.
- The both (if we are talking apples to apples) will have the same Ah rating.
- They both enjoy SOLAR.

But wait

- When you look at the battery LifeCycles the flooded battery will give you almost 10% more than the AGM battery. That is like 250 free cycles (or charging cycles... whichever you like better)
- Flooded type TROJAN = 1250
- AGM type TROJAN = 1000
- The cost for an AGM is higher (Trojan brand = about 50% more)
- You also could throw in the cost of a new battery charge controller for the AGM.

I check my battery water level once a month. My Trojan T145 (6Volt/260Ah) batteries are on year 7. Maybe I will get 8 years out of them? Then again maybe not!
The pictures below, the top AGM was a graph that I have in my folder ignore the difference between 50% and 80%, maybe not, that is good information to keep in mind. Bottom graph is the T105. I used Trojan because those are the charts I had on file.

Now is the time to pick up a Digital Voltage Meter, to insure you do not let your battery voltage drop below 12.2VDC. Amazon has some nice ones that plug into your TT's 12VDC auxiliary outlet. You also may want to pick up an Inexpensive BATTERY monitor for the TT, this will require a shunt to be installed between the battery and the frame ground. Easy install.

I do agree that the AGM are better suited for some of the RV tight quarters.

I am sure I will get a few difference of opinions here, but that is what I like to see.
Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[jhaan]

Originally Posted by Mustang65

...., this will require a shunt to be installed between the battery and the frame ground. Easy install.

I do agree that the AGM are better suited for some of the RV tight quarters.

I am sure I will get a few difference of opinions here, but that is what I like to see.
Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

Can you describe or show the shunt? I do have a plug in voltmeter but it's in bedroom...would be nice to be more accessible.

Are your T 145 flooded?

[putz]

I found this on the internet.

This guy has a lot of video's on solar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=rKCB4oBqums

[Mustang65]

The best picture of a shunt is in this thread and go to post #42. The easiest way to hook up the shunt is to follow the batteries ground terminal cable (usually white) to where it mounts to the TT frame. Order the meter with the 100 amp shunt. There is a model that has a 50 amp shunt, but that is not the one you want.

Once you get the meter let us know and we can walk you through the EASY install. The only other purchase will be a 6" battery cable with lugs on each end for mount bolts and some telephone or CAT5 cable needed to mount your display where you want it and the shunt.

The picture is where you will mount the shunt. I know it says install switch here, but the shunt goes here in your case. The disconnect switch would probably be better if mounted on the POSITIVE battery cable. Since there is the possibility that you may not remember to turn on the switch before departing and there would be no power to the TT's electric brakes, unless you rewire them.


Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[jhaan]

Originally Posted by Mustang65

The best picture of a shunt is in this thread and go to post #42. The easiest way to hook up the shunt is to follow the batteries ground terminal cable (usually white) to where it mounts to the TT frame. Order the meter with the 100 amp shunt. There is a model that has a 50 amp shunt, but that is not the one you want.

Once you get the meter let us know and we can walk you through the EASY install. The only other purchase will be a 6" battery cable with lugs on each end for mount bolts and some telephone or CAT5 cable needed to mount your display where you want it and the shunt.

That is really nice work! Not sure I am ready for that project yet but it is at the top of my list...I cant see boondocking without it.

Quick question as I have wondered about it for other mods too...placing that junction box on the tongue frame...how difficult is it to drill a hole into that metal and then get the screw to stick? Zero experience here attaching to metal without a solder!

[Mustang65]

Originally Posted by jhaan

Quick question as I have wondered about it for other mods too...placing that junction box on the tongue frame...how difficult is it to drill a hole into that metal and then get the screw to stick? Zero experience here attaching to metal without a solder!

If you have a quality drill bit, not the complete set of drill bits for $1.00, drilling the frame will be no problem. Once the box is mounted it will not come loose, as least mine has not.
Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Mustang65

snip....... drilling the frame will be no problem. Once the box is mounted it will not come loose, as least mine has not........snip

X2

My TriMetric (pricey) battery monitor install including shunt junction box mounting in my retired Eagle 278FBS (did transfer to my Jay Flight 24RBS)..:

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...tall-2528.html

Bob

[jhaan]

Originally Posted by Mustang65

If you have a quality drill bit, not the complete set of drill bits for $1.00, drilling the frame will be no problem. Once the box is mounted it will not come loose, as least mine has not.
Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

I have a solar question for you. Posted in solar group, but those threads don't seem as active. I think you are a good place to start

--

Hello all, hopefully simple question:

I have 2019 Flight 24RBS with solar on the side. The SAE connection goes to batteries (eventually) and to ground directly on TT frame.

I have a Epever 20A MPPT charge controller with a grounding screw on the side.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DK5B63K

(I also have breaks for protection, etc)

However, I don't know how to ground, if necessary. This controller claims to be "negative ground" and a response to someone's Amazon question about grounding:

---
It can be ungrounded. If grounding is required, as long as one of the solar panel or the batteries or loads are grounded, the controller is grounded.(Negative ground)
Best wishes,
Y-SOLAR Serivce Team
---

Given the SAE grounds, then am I ok without adding additional grounding to the controller? I remember the importance of grounding from circuits class...and the symbol is cool to write. But I have no clue when/why it's needed.

Thanks in advance!!

[Mustang65]

Originally Posted by jhaan

I have a solar question for you. Posted in solar group, but those threads don't seem as active. I think you are a good place to start

I have 2019 Flight 24RBS with solar on the side. The SAE connection goes to batteries (eventually) and to ground directly on TT frame.

I have a Epever 20A MPPT charge controller with a grounding screw on the side.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DK5B63K

Sorry about the RVing with SOLAR delay. It showed you posted about 12:45AM today. The forum runs a program at about midnight each night to send email alerts that there is a new message waiting. I will probably get the alert tomorrow morning.... but I usually check them regularly. There would have been a delay, as the last 4 days, temperature permitting, I have been rerunning my TV cables and HomeNetwork CAT5 cables (to a main media center distribution box) along with DS18B20 temperature sensors for my Energy Management/Home Automation systems (New CAT5 cables) in the attic.

OK, do you need to ground the MPPT controller. It is pretty much up to each mfr, if they require it. My MorningStar TS60 MPPT SOLAR charge controller has a ground terminal, but connecting it to ground was not required. So, I did not connect it, not that it would have been an issue as the battery negative terminal (which is connected through the disconnect switch to ground) is located about 18" away from the controller. I took a quick look at the documentation for your controller and there is no reference at to whether or not you need the connection. Based on the lack of ground reference in the documentation and is not shown in the system drawing, I would say it is not required. I would still contact the mfr's support for their thoughts.

Make sure that you hook up the temperature sensor to the battery, as it is needed to do the charge calculations.

I should update these pictures at the rerun of the Battery Disconnect Switch is not show on these pictures.

Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[Gogrampa]

Great info, but to the OP’s question will the WFCO charger be adequate to fully charge AGM batts? Or must one get an upgraded charger to handle the AGM charge requirements?

[Mustang65]

Originally Posted by jhaan

Does anyone have experience successfully charging AGM batteries with the stock WFCO controller?

What is the WFCO's model?
Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[jhaan]

Originally Posted by Mustang65

The best picture of a shunt is in this thread and go to post #42. The easiest way to hook up the shunt is to follow the batteries ground terminal cable (usually white) to where it mounts to the TT frame. Order the meter with the 100 amp shunt. There is a model that has a 50 amp shunt, but that is not the one you want.

Once you get the meter let us know and we can walk you through the EASY install. The only other purchase will be a 6" battery cable with lugs on each end for mount bolts and some telephone or CAT5 cable needed to mount your display where you want it and the shunt.

Ok, so I have my solar panels working now but won't need them for a few weeks. Thank you for the tips with regard to getting that all setup!!

So I ordered the meter (and a disconnect switch). The latter I will be able to install directly into the battery box, so it should prove super useful (as long as I remember to leave enough wire to remove the lid to the box...)

But the meter...I didn't realize it wasn't coming with wires, but you did tell me to get CAT5, but I didn't listen. I am not about to go outside right now and wire it all up, but I'm trying to figure out how it will work for when I do decide to jump off that bridge. So a few questions:

1. The shunt will be right off the batteries so that I have easy connection to the (-) wire. I'm not so sure about (+), though. Am I going to take that right off the battery? Or some other apparently random red wire hanging around? Obviously not, but that ones a little sketchy to me. I suppose if I get the (+) locally, then I only need to run 2 wires long distance to the meter.

2. Since the shunt is sitting right by the tongue, the wiring to the meter will travel quite a ways, huh? I guess that surprised me...I thought all the connections would be close to (-) and then some wire would move the information out to the meter.

3. I have a new trailer, and I'm not sure how I can "easily" hard wire this meter into the wall somewhere. I saw someone used conduit along the underside...makes sense...but then how do I access it? Especially with the enclosed underbelly I feel like I am trying to add an electrical outlet to my house that has no attic and no basement (and hence no access to the walls).

Ok--I know these are not easy questions, but......have any tips or suggestions?

Thank you!!

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by jhaan

snip..... I saw someone used conduit along the underside.....snip

jhaan,

You may be referring to my 2005 Eagle TT battery meter installation 'link' I referenced in Post #8 in this thread.

I re-installed the same Trimetric meter into my 2018 24RBS and mounted it on the outside of the floor cabinet located next to main entry door. From the A-frame shunt junction box I ran my conduit along the frame back just beyond the entry door, then came up through the underbelly directly inside the floor cabinet. I elected not to attempt an in-wall wire routing.

I didn't take pics of my 24RBS meter install, but I can take & post some pics if they would be helpful.

Bob

[jhaan]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

jhaan,

You may be referring to my 2005 Eagle TT battery meter installation 'link' I referenced in Post #8 in this thread.

I re-installed the same Trimetric meter into my 2018 24RBS and mounted it on the outside of the floor cabinet located next to main entry door. From the A-frame shunt junction box I ran my conduit along the frame back just beyond the entry door, then came up through the underbelly directly inside the floor cabinet. I elected not to attempt an in-wall wire routing.

I didn't take pics of my 24RBS meter install, but I can take & post some pics if they would be helpful.

Bob

Hmmm...yes that was your work...I didn't realize it! I was specifically wondering how to do this on the 24RBS, and I like your idea because I don't want to start drilling into walls. I also have a solar controller with a "remote" monitor that I could wire along with this in the same conduit (and mount in the same location). I am going to look into how I could do this, what questions come up, and then I'll ask for pictures (or brief explanation) on where I see the sticking points might be; no sense in asking for a series of pictures when I haven't looked into details yet. I'll get on this later this week, sadly the weekend is over

Thanks again!

[TCNashville]

Originally Posted by Gogrampa

Great info, but to the OP’s question will the WFCO charger be adequate to fully charge AGM batts? Or must one get an upgraded charger to handle the AGM charge requirements?

I was wondering this as well. The OP's question still hasn't been answered. I was curious as well about my 7 year old Progressive Dynamics converter on whether it would support an AGM battery so I e-mailed them and found out it does. Those that have the WFCO converter I suggest you do the same.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by TCNashville

snip...... Those that have the WFCO converter I suggest you do the same.

I can't address the AGM battery specifically (have wet cell bank)....., but I can state that my 2018 WFCO 8955 PEC Converter/Charger never functioned at "Bulk Mode" (14.4Vdc) even at 40% DoD. My WFCO best was 13.4Vdc - 13.6Vdc.

I spoke directly with WFCO support in respect to my problem and was advised that my WFCO was designed to operate automatically at 14.4Vdc under specific pre-programed conditions......, my WFCO never did.

Reference "PD Upgrade" thread: https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...e-60417-3.html

Bob

[oldmanAZ]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

snip...
I spoke directly with WFCO support in respect to my problem and was advised that my WFCO was designed to operate automatically at 14.4Vdc under specific pre-programed conditions......, my WFCO never did.

Reference "PD Upgrade" thread: https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...e-60417-3.html

Bob

I think my WFCO might have hit 14.4vdc for roughly 2sec one time - just long enough to see it on my digital VOM. Needless to say, 2sec is too short a time in bulk mode for my batteries.

[Mustang65]

Originally Posted by oldmanAZ

I think my WFCO might have hit 14.4vdc for roughly 2sec one time - just long enough to see it on my digital VOM. Needless to say, 2sec is too short a time in bulk mode for my batteries.

Are your batteries fully charged? The best way to test your charge controller is to discharge your battery to 12.2VDC, without shore power connected, then connect shore power and take your readings as the batteries are recharging.

Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[oldmanAZ]

Originally Posted by Mustang65

Are your batteries fully charged? The best way to test your charge controller is to discharge your battery to 12.2VDC, without shore power connected, then connect shore power and take your readings as the batteries are recharging.

Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

No, not that low; probably 12.4v.

(Condensed version. I had months to try a variety of things.)
We have a generator and were boondocking and campground hosts in the Coconino National Forest. I assumed I could fully charge our 2, group 24 (I think) batteries by running my generator 6 hours each day, 3 in the morning and 3 in the evening. WRONG! One day I even ran the generator ALL DAY ~10hrs (the campground was empty) without getting to full charge or much different than what the 6 hours achieved.

I believe my mistake was drawing down our batteries to 12.4v over several days when we first arrived. The whole 3 months we were there the batteries always stayed in the 12.4 area, charging morning and evening. Frustrating, but I didn't kill our batteries and am still using them.Because I couldn't gain on the discharge, I never let our batteries go below 12.4v. I have no confidence that if I did go lower, that I would have been able to get back to 12.4v.
BTW, at one point I disconnected ALL the 12v 'parasitic' draws for a day. I didn't detect a change in measurable discharge/recharge so reconnected the propane/CO detector.
(Off topic: Portable solar MAY have helped, but the camp host site was under tall pines and the trailer was in shade most of the day.)