Tankless water heater issues

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by fred639

Rob if I keep my Grey Hawk dealer is going to swap heater out its not going to work on the trips we take they are 3 to 5 nights with no hook ups, but I have a fight on my hands cause of a vibration problem as well, between Rv dealer and Ford I had coach in our possession for 2 weeks since September So come next week something is getting resolved
May have to push lemon law

Information from other forum users is that Jayco Service has authorized the replacement of tankless water heaters with a traditional 6-gallon tank-style unit. A 6-gallon HWH can fit without enlarging the outer opening according to posted information. I went bigger because I wanted more capacity.

But I don't know whether Jayco installed a heater which also has an electric element as I did with mine. So not only do I have more consistent temps, but I also can use campground power (when available) to heat water rather than burning propane thereby saving another resource (propane) at times. When several showers need to be taken in succession the gas switch will go on too.

[fred639]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

Information from other forum users is that Jayco Service has authorized the replacement of tankless water heaters with a traditional 6-gallon tank-style unit. A 6-gallon HWH can fit without enlarging the outer opening according to posted information. I went bigger because I wanted more capacity.

But I don't know whether Jayco installed a heater which also has an electric element as I did with mine. So not only do I have more consistent temps, but I also can use campground power (when available) to heat water rather than burning propane thereby saving another resource (propane) at times. When several showers need to be taken in succession the gas switch will go on too.

I have read that 6 gal will fit and I know it won't have electric element in it which is fine has to be better than tankless crap\

[hoppers4]

I replaced mine and it has electric and propane. I didn't get it replaced by Jayco but on my own dime. Not sure what Jayco would install on their dime.

[edatlanta]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

Exactly why I swapped out my Girard for a 10-gallon Atwood XT tank-style WH.

Next spring I plan to install either a hot water recirculation or a purge system system to provide almost instantaneous hot water to the fixtures. The purge system would incorporate a momentary switch operating a solenoid valve that would dump hot water back into the fresh water tank. To be used mostly when not hooked up to campground water. That way water isn't "wasted" waiting for it to get hot. Push the switch for 10 - 15 seconds and cold water will be purged from the line. I may get fancy and install an automatic (but adjustable) delay circuit to operate the valve.

Also with a traditional tank-style water heater when someone is showering and reduces the flow to a trickle, the temperature will remain constant unlike the Girard where the heater shuts off the burner at very low water flows to prevent scalding temperatures.

For those owners who spend most of the time with full hookups the Girard, (and probably especially the newer model with electronic controls) is probably a good fit. But for those of us who camp frequently without hookups wasting water waiting for it to get hot is a "big deal". We also shouldn't forget having a finite amount of grey water holding capacity when not at a sewer site. Dumping water into the grey tank waiting to get hot eats up two of our resources!

I really don't understand why a propane only water heater is a good fit when you are on a full hookup site where the electricity is prepaid. Maybe on a monthly site where electricity is metered and the rate is high, but I guess I just don't understand.

Please explain to me why a Girard is a good idea anywhere? I'm not trying to cause any issues here, I really just don't understand the need or the fit.

Thanks.

[rgolding]

edatlanta said - "Please explain to me why a Girard is a good idea anywhere? I'm not trying to cause any issues here, I really just don't understand the need or the fit."

I have to agree. I think the powers that be, thinks it sounds cool and that's about the only reason.

[Robbbyr]

In my opinion there are a few reasons it might be good, some benefit the manufacturer, some features maybe help some owners.

I believe the unit is less expensive up front than a larger (10-gallon and up) traditional tank-style DSI/Electric units to provide more hot water than a smaller tank-style HWH. It also is much lighter both in its construction and when full of water (it probably only holds less than a gallon). It does not require "bypassing" for winterization, it can be filled with RV antifreeze and left that way, whereas for tank-style units that is not recommended (antifreeze cost and corrosion issues?). When all the "variables" are managed, such as incoming water pressure, temperature, and flow, it can deliver unlimited hot water for those with large families and/or those that want to stand under the shower for long durations. But you need to be hooked up to camp water and sewer, otherwise you will exhaust your FW tank and fill up your grey tank quickly. You also are not expending propane to "store" hot water for the majority of a time when it isn't being used. So there may be some saving for some owners in that respect.

It is possible the newer Girard model, which incorporates electronic controls, will better manage the variables. But I talked directly to a Girard company technician and he admitted even the new model cannot compensate for very low flows, such as when a person (without hookups?) is throttling the flow to save water. It cannot lower the flame enough to provide consistent temperatures at very low flows. Many users have to remove flow restrictors in their shower/faucets so that enough flow occurs to prevent burner "cycling" and the resultant scald/freeze temperature swings. Certainly not conducive to water conservation.

I grew up in a house with 6 kids and two adults and a 40-gallon hot water tank. From an early age we had to ration hot water. I enlisted in the Navy at 17, and at that time on a ship ALL fresh water is a precious commodity. Hence the term "Navy" showers. Just like being at a campsite without water and sewer today I suppose. Even though I now live in a stick house with city water and sewer, my wife and I still shower that way every day! But with the Girard in my motorhome (originally) it just did not work. So I took it upon myself to install a 10-gallon Atwood XT water heater in my unit. Now I have the ability to throttle the water as desired, and I can heat it with campground electricity when available.

[Jopopsy]

For those of us who camp on full hookups only, the Girard is a real boon. We 'camp' to vacation, and we all appreciate the ability to take a normal residential shower. Once you get the hang of getting it set up, the Girard performs fantastic. Granted, each campground is different (water pressure/water temp) so you have to fiddle with it each time you're at someplace new.

If I were boondocking or camping w/ only electric and no hookups, this Girard would be a disaster. However, that's not how we camp so its a non-issue for us.

[Robbbyr]

Now if a manufacturer could come up with an affordable water heater that could operate in either an instantaneous or storage mode, use both propane and electric (when available), THAT would be be something I would jump at!

[WaltW]

Jopopsy, I too use FHU campgrounds. Unfortuately the Girard did not work at high altitudes - 7,000 ft and above. My replacement HW heater (paid for by Jayco) manual contains info re degraded performance at alts above 4,500'. Since some of Jersey is now below sea level, you may not have this problem

[Jopopsy]

Didn't know about the altitude deal - obviously doesn't apply to me. Hrm.

[CanucksVenturingSouth]

I wish we could figure it out. We usually end up giving up and using the showers in the campsite. We follow the directions posted by the taps but to no avail :-(

[rgolding]

CanucksVenturingSouth,

Try just using hot water and adjust it to the temperature you want at the bathroom sink. Then use just that hot water in the shower with the faucet set about the middle of the flow. Too warm, barely turn on cold. Too cold, turn hot water fully on.

[Mwade]

Mine is being worked on right now. They first thought it was a propane problem. They replaced the regulator on the tank, but that did not fix the problem of not having constant hot water. Now the factory thinks it is a valve in the heater itself. It did work pretty good when I was using city water. I would use only the hot water side, and regulate the temp. When we were not using city water, and using tank water, we would have nothing but hot, cold, hot cold.

[WaltW]

Mwade, did anyone check the water pressure from the pump? The on demand WH seems to be sensitive to water pressure.

[Robbbyr]

Flow water at sink, adjust burner control, turn hot on all the way at shower, different burner adjustments if incoming water temperature is warm or cold, pray no else in the coach turns on any water elsewhere while someone is showering, don't throttle the water to save tank water and grey capacity, and so on...... Hot water should not be so difficult, and it never was before! I am so glad I went back to a conventional tank.

Does anyone have any experience with the new model Girard (with electronic controls) and can therefore provide feedback? When I talked to Girard several months ago they were willing to give current Girard owners a discount to upgrade the to new unit. You have to contact them directly, but it might be an option for some to obtain better performance.

[Mgeist]

We have to reset the water heater on/off button frequently. It just stops working. It is annoying because you have to take the cover off outside and we have already snapped off the plastic thing and now have to screw it on.

However, we have solved the inconsistent heating issue by changing the flow. Depending on the pressure at the campground we do or do not use the hose regulator OR we use the water pump, which has pressure sufficient to maintain a constant temperature.

[Bicycleman]

I have been reading about the issues with ODWH and after further searching of the internet I have found that ATTWOOD tankless water heaters have had a recall NHTSA 10-29-15. it is supposed to correct the scalding issues. We have a Girad tankless and would not give it up for anything. Yes it took some getting used to on how to control water flow but after that we have never run out of hot water.

[NC Roamer]

Originally Posted by Mgeist

It is annoying because you have to take the cover off outside and we have already snapped off the plastic thing and now have to screw it on.

Our's also had the plastic latch, but our dealer replaced it with a much more substantial metal one.

[Forelyndogs]

When we first got the rig, I broke the little plastic doohickey that keeps the door closed too. I was trying to figure out why the damn thing made so much noise. Turns out, it just does! Only the newer models have a reset switch. I saw a video on YouTube showing how to find and use the reset button. I thought, oh great, now I'll know how to do it if I ever need to. My unit, which is one of the second generation, but not the current generation, does not have a reset. (If it does, it's not mentioned in the manual nor can I find it behind the outside door.)

As I've said before, we have "more or less" mastered the unit and are basically satisfied. Lots of hot water and uses much less propane. The most frustrating aspect is that without a hot water tank, we've given up 6 or 7 gallons of fresh water. At a campground that is not a problem and wasting water with leisurely showers is not a crisis. Dry camping for more than 2 days definitely requires very careful water management. It's hard to believe that 6 or 7 gallons would make that much difference but it does. We live in California so saving water has become second nature for us, and I am ashamed of myself when I take advantage of the campground's water for a classic leisurely shower.

[JDSport]

I've only had my new unit out twice and both times had a water hookup. When I go dry camping I intend to bring a couple 5 gallon jugs of water to ensure I don't run out. I too miss having that extra 6 in the water heater tank.