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Old 11-18-2015, 09:20 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b1mmuo27 View Post
It's Filon. Half fibreglass, half plastic. It's what the coach was built with.
I Understand it is an FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic), it may or may not be a thermoforming type plastic. I would ask the mfg. Their are also different thickness of FRP. Jayco I was told uses three different thickness, depending on the price point of the unit. They may or may not have different application techniques. Worth asking the mfg to clarify.

Great job so far !
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:22 PM   #122
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FRP Panels by Crane Composites

This is whom I was told Jayco uses, or used. It is a thermoset plastic, which is why it can bend so tight. But it needs to be heated to be bent. It also shows the different thickness's they provide.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:40 PM   #123
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I Understand it is an FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic), it may or may not be a thermoforming type plastic. I would ask the mfg.
It is Filon I have been in contact with Jayco. They sent me all the drawings for the coach as I have been building. Believe me I know what I'm doing. I also didn't start this yesterday.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:57 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by b1mmuo27 View Post
It is Filon I have been in contact with Jayco. They sent me all the drawings for the coach as I have been building. Believe me I know what I'm doing. I also didn't start this yesterday.
I'm not saying you don't know anything. But filon is a mfg of Glass Reinforced Panels and most of there panels are thermoforming panels. Which means you need to apply heat to get them to bend and hold a shape..I don't know exactly what panel your using, which is why I suggested you contact them for exact technical information on applications.

I have done extensive thermoforming over the years, and precise heat is mandatory for a successful job. IE Formica plastic is heated to 315 degree's to bend...not 300 and not 325... I am not familiar with Filon products and only suggested why you may be having some issues. It's your unit, I was only trying to help... you don't need to take my suggestion, nor will I make any other suggestions.

I wish you much success on your large undertaking.
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Old 11-18-2015, 10:21 PM   #125
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Sorry I'm misunderstanding you. You can't heat this as I tried to re animate the glue. It just tends to melt the plastic in the sheet. When I removed the old filon from the front of the coach it tended to straighten out after all these years. I have had these sheets of filon cut in 10 x 10 foot squares panels & loosely wound up for over 2 years. It just straightends right out if you remove the tape holding it round. The glue I am using is a 3M for laminates. It needed to be held on place to set but try as I might with the limited type of jig I could make it wasn't strong enough to hold the filon in place while gluing. The answer was to cut it the way I have done now, clamp it then splice it back together as the rest of the skin will have to be done on the side walls.
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Old 11-19-2015, 12:45 AM   #126
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As I said temperature is important. Straightening out after being rolled is a trait of thermos forming plastic. When you heat it, and either put it in a mold or adhere it, once it cools it will then keep that form. Yes it can be done cold, not as tight of radius but then clamping (jayco uses pinch rollers on flat and vacuum on curved) . Contact adhesive is applied to both pieces, allowed to "dry" and then stuck together. Once it is stuck pressure must be applied (pinch rolling or vacuum) to form the bond. They make rollers to assist in applying the proper pressure. Contact adhesive can be re-activated with heat....being a neoprene based material. Typically about 200 degree's will reactive the adhesive....the plastic melting point should be considerably above this. Normally a heat gun is used, making sure to keep it moving and not to over heat the material. They make a liquid, which is applied to the plastic, which will melt at a predetermined temperature so you can get the correct temperature. Again pressure is important for a good bond. Vacuum bonding is nothing more than placing the structure in a mold with a vinyl sheet enclosing the whole piece and evacuating the air. Air pressure does the rest...this is not something that is easily accomplished without the right equipment. We did vacuum bonding and also bonding using a male and female template and clamping them. On a large piece it is very difficult. Perhaps a metal trim which is formed to fit the round portion with straight FRP pieces would be an easier task. What your working on is not an easy task...my hats off to you and all the effort you have put in to make it work. They do make heat rods which is what is typically used to heat the plastic, cost for a single project would most likely be out of the question.

Contact adhesive is an instant bond of about 75% of full strength. Easiest way is to start at the top, and work your way down, not allowing it to touch ahead of you since it will bond immediately. No clamping is needed. It will take about 30 days to reach 100% donging strength depending on temperature etc. But the immediate bond is strong enough to hold it in place.

Most of my work was case work or formed laminate tops, all the same process. Contact adhesive also allows some movement in the material as it is neoprene based. If a more rigid glue line is desired you can use a standard yellow glue which does require clamping and time to cure.

You are doing a great job and it's interesting following your progress. Took me years to learn all the proper procedures to get good results 100% of the time. After I sold my shop I worked as a specification rep, representing Formica and related products. This included helping shops learn proper techniques and procedures. Sorry if I came across wrong, I was just trying to help a fellow RVer with what knowledge I may have.

I look forward to your continued posts and progress. Don't think I would want to tackle a project as large as you, especially at this point in life !

Note Jayco does all this laminating flat or in molds... their job is much easier. Hanging this stuff vertically is a challenge..

Keep posting, many of us enjoy following you.

Interesting fact.. here in Az we had a company that was re-laminating slot machines. These machines had a round top and straight sides. They were using my (Formica) laminate and contact adhesive. They did a trailer load which were shipped to LA...where they sat in the trailer for over a month...when they opened the trailer up, the laminate had pulled off the on the straight side, delaminating. They asked me to write an letter explaining why this happened and how it could be eliminated in the future. Obviously heat was the problem. Being enclosed in a trailer in the sun, in LA in summer, the temperature got above the re-activation temperature, and the laminate, not being heated (which was not necessary, due to the large radius) it wanted to straighten out, and had built in tension. It is also why hot melt is not used here to laminate panels as we did back in the Midwest. Amazing how hot the sun can cause items to get here. Good Luck...
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Old 11-20-2015, 05:46 PM   #127
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I would have vacuum bonded but I couldn't figure out how we would seal the front. It has been challenging so far but thanks for the info.
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Old 12-23-2015, 09:34 PM   #128
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I'm going to get some 3M Fastbond contact adhesive & try that on the filon to plywood.
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Old 12-24-2015, 04:01 AM   #129
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Just wanted to say that this is very interesting and informative.
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Old 12-24-2015, 08:57 AM   #130
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Great project.

So when did Jayco start using solid foam insulation and aluminium framing in their Eagles?
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