"Soft" Floor around toilet - Page 2

FeatherFam · 09-02-2018, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Girth

Well it's not like I have much choice, as it needs to be fixed, and I'm sure not willing to pay someone else to do what I can do on my own. It IS certainly looking to be more work than I wanted to do though.

It's not that the connector/union isn't there, it clearly is, but the stack was never in it! The plywood biscuit from a hole saw is what you see in that pic, with the pipe for the roof vent sitting on top of it.

The notion of legal action has been considered. If the outcome is not in my favor, it would likely cost me much more than repairing it myself.

At this point I'm certain it will never be 100% again, though it will sure look better than it did when new. Just HOW I'm gonna deal with damage at/under the side walls, I'm not sure yet. Considering epoxy to stabilize the damaged OSB, and lapping the new floor to the old at the sides.

Now for the fun news. Considering what caused this, and how it was assembled, this could be a likely issue in most ALL of their trailers. If that vent stack is cut through the roofing and just shoved down inside the wall..... that means the connection at the union above the floor is never sealed.

I don't recall seeing any evidence of glue on the end of that pipe, but I can take a closer look later. How's that for a happy thought?

I would say that you are right. There is no telling what lurks above and beneath these "piles." If you try to "fix" it, you are going to have to completely gut the rear of that thing (assuming this is the rear of the unit). You will never get the mold and mildew out without completely tearing the whole pile of junk apart and starting over. I understand your predicament. If it were me, and it likely is, just don't know it yet, I would dump it and move on. I would wind up killing someone or having a heart attack if I had to go through this.

Oliver? Bigfoot? Casita? Escape? Anyone . . . What a nightmare!

Girth · 09-02-2018, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeatherFam

I would say that you are right. There is no telling what lurks above and beneath these "piles." If you try to "fix" it, you are going to have to completely gut the rear of that thing (assuming this is the rear of the unit). You will never get the mold and mildew out without completely tearing the whole pile of junk apart and starting over. I understand your predicament. If it were me, and it likely is, just don't know it yet, I would dump it and move on. I would wind up killing someone or having a heart attack if I had to go through this.

Oliver? Bigfoot? Casita? Escape? Anyone . . . What a nightmare!

It is the rear, which seems to be a bit of a blessing, as at least the rear wall is NOT on top of the deck. Of course the side walls are.

"Dumping it" and moving on sadly isn't an option. Bank owns it still.

Lesson learned I suppose. If I were to do it over, I'd buy an older one for next to nothing, repair what I felt like and use the hell out of it. OHhhh no though, we wanted "newer and trouble free". After this is all said and done, I likely will sell it down the road, and probably still at a loss.... just not THAT much of one.

As far as gutting it.... well, that is already in progress. lol I got the tub out. Always wondered if I could lower it, as only an Oompa Loompa could comfortable stand in that shower. Looking at the plumbing, that would be a challenge, though maybe not impossible. At least now others can see these pics and see how it's put together. After the screws were out, the p-trap unscrewed from the drain, it only took another 30min of carefully cutting through putty tape that was REALLY holding it in there. Now I know.... the decking is damp/moldy all the way to the opposite wall. Not soft and rotten, but not far from it.

As an aside, the floor deck and vinyl are cut out for the shower P-trap. Its about an 8x8 hole cut in the deck, and you can see the insulation under the cut vinyl. PERFECT entrance for critters, if they get their way into the underbelly of the trailer. For other owners, that could likely be plugged from below, if you pulled the cover off the bottom of the trailer. Might be easier to carefully remove the tub though.

RetiredLEO · 09-02-2018, 04:02 PM

I am almost starting to think that Jayco just might do something for you on this.........some chance............not a lot..........but possible. I sure hope so for you

Please keep us up to date

Good luck!

FeatherFam · 09-02-2018, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Girth

It is the rear, which seems to be a bit of a blessing, as at least the rear wall is NOT on top of the deck. Of course the side walls are.

"Dumping it" and moving on sadly isn't an option. Bank owns it still.

Lesson learned I suppose. If I were to do it over, I'd buy an older one for next to nothing, repair what I felt like and use the hell out of it. OHhhh no though, we wanted "newer and trouble free". After this is all said and done, I likely will sell it down the road, and probably still at a loss.... just not THAT much of one.

As far as gutting it.... well, that is already in progress. lol I got the tub out. Always wondered if I could lower it, as only an Oompa Loompa could comfortable stand in that shower. Looking at the plumbing, that would be a challenge, though maybe not impossible. At least now others can see these pics and see how it's put together. After the screws were out, the p-trap unscrewed from the drain, it only took another 30min of carefully cutting through putty tape that was REALLY holding it in there. Now I know.... the decking is damp/moldy all the way to the opposite wall. Not soft and rotten, but not far from it.

As an aside, the floor deck and vinyl are cut out for the shower P-trap. Its about an 8x8 hole cut in the deck, and you can see the insulation under the cut vinyl. PERFECT entrance for critters, if they get their way into the underbelly of the trailer. For other owners, that could likely be plugged from below, if you pulled the cover off the bottom of the trailer. Might be easier to carefully remove the tub though.

I am so sorry. Hang in there, man. We were similarly bamboozled on our last RV. Among other things, I had to re-hang (or hang for the first time) a side wall that literally disconnected from the frame. Keep us posted.

Mach1tosh · 09-02-2018, 09:40 PM

Check into the small claims process.
I don't know about Washington state, I am in BC to the north, it could very well be different with regards to fees and costs incurred by the defendant.
Here you pay a filing fee, used to be $125 may be more now. The court notifies the defendant (Jayco) that you the plaintiff have filed in small claims court. Defendant has XX days to respond or the claim will be adjudicated without them present. Your evidence is all that is considered as a result.
If the defendant responds and the case goes ahead, there is usually an attempt at arbitration between the parties. Should this be unfruitful it goes to trial which is usually fairly quick.
Here you can also claim for the filing fee if successful. The plaintiff is also not liable for any costs incurred by the defendant. Low risk even if you don't win. You're only on the hook for the filing fee.
Might be worth seeing if this could work. You seem to have a pretty solid case of negligence resulting in significant loss on your part.

namusmc65 · 09-03-2018, 05:41 AM

Wow, what a story this is. It only takes one step in the process and look what happens years down the road. I try to keep a close eye on any wet areas and keep our rig under a shelter. I have helped several folks buy used rigs and one of the things I really check for is signs of water intrusion, inside cabinets and any place I can look and feel. It may take several years for the damage to manifest itself so you have to be vigilant.

RoscoW · 09-03-2018, 07:39 AM

just went thru this with a corner seal leak in my Octane, the hardest thing to find was an interior wall panelling to match the existing. We ended up getting some panels right from Jayco off the line of the Eagle HT line, it was an almost perfect match and the only way you can tell I had it apart is by the new flooring in the bedroom. We had it sent on a trailer coming to the dealer an saved a shipping cost. It wasn't cheap for what it is, but worth it to me to not have something that looked wrong.

Ross..

Girth · 09-03-2018, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namusmc65

Wow, what a story this is. It only takes one step in the process and look what happens years down the road. I try to keep a close eye on any wet areas and keep our rig under a shelter. I have helped several folks buy used rigs and one of the things I really check for is signs of water intrusion, inside cabinets and any place I can look and feel. It may take several years for the damage to manifest itself so you have to be vigilant.

I think I would suggest getting more scientific about it. Moisture meters and such. There were NO outward signs of water intrusion.... until the soft floor was noticed. As we had no place to keep it out of the weather, we were pretty religious about checking it, keeping the gutters clear, etc.

Every nook and cranny was bone dry. No drips, no water spots, no discoloration or delamination in any of the flimsy panels. None of the damp/mildew smell that you get even a hint of ANY time water gets into someplace with no air movement.

Girth · 09-03-2018, 07:20 PM

So there is no good news yet. I DID get a message back from Jayco on facebook today, though couldn't get them on the phone as they're closed for the holiday. I'm not hopeful as it was a bit of a canned response "So sorry to hear about your troubles. We take customer complaints very seriously." They asked for my VIN, names it was registered in, and date of purchase..... hell if I remember the date of purchase. lol

Gave them the VIN and such, attached a pic of the vent stack..... we'll see.

At this point, as I dig deeper and deeper (I cut a good portion of the rear floor out today), it's getting to the point of "fix it good enough, and sell it down the road".

I'll take a loss on it, for sure, but at least it will be good enough where the next owner won't fall through the floor. She will never be 100% again, not without a COMPLETE teardown to the frame basically.

Sooooo, the issue at hand. Plenty of rotten OSB decking, no big deal. It's still fairly solid at the side walls, and so far all the underlying floor bracing/studs are wet, but SOLID. No soft spots found in the structure. HOWEVER...… the insulation under the floor seems to be a BIG problem. It's soaked. This is where I discovered what I consider to be a MAJOR design flaw. It is built like so.....

Steel frame, on top of which is the vapor barrier? Basically a black tarp. On top of that is the insulation batting (its NOT cut and placed in between the floor "joists"), and THEN the wood framing for the floor deck.

Of course on top of all that is what looks to be 3/4in OSB and the vinyl flooring. The rub is, the insulation batting is trapped BETWEEN the wood floor framing and the vapor barrier, and of course sandwiched TIGHT where it's bolted to the steel frame. That's odd, as of course it's compressed there, but maybe fine and dandy...…. until it gets wet!

That vapor barrier holds the moisture in, and the insulation wicks it up...… all over the place. I have no idea how far forward the insulation is wet.

It's already obvious that it's further forward than the obvious discoloration on the OSB decking. ANY little bit of moisture that gets past that vapor barrier, and it's stapled to the bottom of the trailer, so water can get in a LOT of places, and that insulation will take the moisture where it will.

SO.... plan of attack right now is to cut out as much of the damaged OSB as feasible. I started pulling out the insulation batting as I went (It's soaked), but of course some is trapped under the wood framing. Gonna open it up as best I can, clean the hell out of it, and let it dry. Then I'm gonna add some framing in the floor at my cut lines, and start lapping in new decking. Screw and glue all over the place. Debating some sort of epoxy sealer over the OSB. (I'm gonna cut out all the vinyl flooring) Then it's gonna get vinyl plank flooring, I'm gonna reframe the bathroom wall better than it was, and start reinstalling everything I've taken out.

At least that's the plan right now.

We'll see what this week brings. It kept me up last night, pondering pulling siding and opening up more walls. I know the more I dig, the more I'll find.

It's starting to remind me of one of our popular mottos at work. "We're in the business of repair, not restoration." Well, that and "It's not the space shuttle. Just fix it, and get it flying again!"

RetiredLEO · 09-04-2018, 04:54 PM

Man, sure hope you can catch a break which you so very well much deserve. Hope you can get a good respnse from Jayco.
Wishing you the best!
Keep us informed!

bdreinv · 09-04-2018, 05:20 PM

Small claims is a crap shoot in Arizona. The big companies just bump it up to the next higher court. Understanding most don't have the funds to fight it.Personally I would make an insurance claim.If possible do the work pocket the cash!Will be done right once you finish it!

Girth · 09-04-2018, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetiredLEO

Man, sure hope you can catch a break which you so very well much deserve. Hope you can get a good respnse from Jayco.
Wishing you the best!
Keep us informed!

That WOULD be nice. Maybe that interview this week will go well and I'll get an awesome job offer.

The response from whomever runs Jayco's facebook page is very apologetic, and that they are forwarding my info to a specific customer service rep. I'm not holding my breath or expecting much of a positive outcome there, not to mention I can't really sit on my thumbs and wait. "Winter is coming!" and I'm working outside, unless my buddy can make room in his 60x80. lol

Thank you though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdreinv

Small claims is a crap shoot in Arizona. The big companies just bump it up to the next higher court. Understanding most don't have the funds to fight it.Personally I would make an insurance claim.If possible do the work pocket the cash!Will be done right once you finish it!

Spoke to our wonderful insurance gal today. We have additional collision and comp on it, but no coverage for water damage. I don't remember if I'm just dumb, or dumb AND cheap.... but we aren't covered for that.

Maybe I'll get lucky and a tree will fall in tonight?

Check your policies boys and girls.

It's supposed to be dry and warm for the next couple days, but rains expected this weekend. I got most of the bad floor cut out, besides a bit around the shower P-trap, and the outter edges under the side walls. Cut the decking until I started to see OSB that WASN'T wet and moldy underneath, and started running into dry insulation. It's not a small area. It needs to dry out a lot more, and with the expected rain coming, I probably won't go to work on the walls just yet. On the plus side, with it totally open, it will be REAL obvious if water is coming in anywhere else besides that vent stack. I stuck the vent stack ONTO the coupler, just in case. There IS glue on the end of the pipe, so it won't go into the coupler as is. Now we know how they're assembled at the factory though.

I pulled that plywood biscuit, and you can see one side is white. Yep, it's from the ceiling panel being cut at the factory. Obviously I ended up cutting out a bit more decking that I had hoped to.

That piece against the wall is from under the shower tub. Long white fuzz on it is insulation, the rest is some nasty science experiment. I'd hazard a guess that's not just "water" in there. lol Ewww. I'd tell you what it smells like, but I've been wearing a respirator since I first saw the mold under the vinyl floor. Well, that and the vinegar I've been spraying to kill mildew kinda overpowers most smells.

chrismoore701 · 09-06-2018, 01:48 PM

bump

Girth · 09-06-2018, 05:33 PM

I love it when I type a reply, and am suddenly logged out when I hit post.

So I got a call from Jayco today. Had to have the wife call them back as I was at work. Long and short of it is, they do not consider themselves to have any liability in the manner. That didn't surprise me, but what they told her afterwards DID. They apparently draw the line at us not being the original owners. Apparently in their eyes, it's not the age of the trailer, but the fact that we bought it 2nd hand that absolves them of any liability.

She said she pushed the subject, that the original owners traded it in, and when we bought it, it clearly had very little use. Looked brand new. That and OBVIOUSLY, it had a major defect from the day it left the factory. Didn't matter. The guy from Jayco apparently got a little argumentative. Said his records show the dinette was repaired in 2013, so it MUST have had some use. I guess he didn't have a reply when she asked if he realized it was a 2013 model, so why would the dinette need to be repaired?

I guess we know the answer to THAT. lol Maybe that experience is what made the original owners trade it in?

Anyhoo…. it's still drying out. I'm gonna stick a heater in it as its supposed to cool off and probably rain this weekend. I'll be looking for any other leaks, beyond the known vent stack. Guy from Jayco DID send along some prints. Nothing that looks too useful though. I can see well enough how it's built now. I DID find their wood framing dimensions on the drawing a bit curious though. 1 1/2in x 1 1/8in? Sounds like a "2x2" to me.... sort of. lol

I need to source a pneumatic staple gun to reassemble the luan interior paneling, and probably restock my screw assortment. Most everything is gonna get glued and screwed back together. Dunno yet if I can reuse the self-tapping screws that secure the deck to the steel frame, but figure worst case I'll run new screws through and put nuts and lock washers underneath. I have enough Dicor, OSI Quad, and butyl tape on hand, I should be ready to seal up anything I take apart. It'll probably be another week or so until further deconstruction and rebuilding begins.

Girth · 09-06-2018, 05:40 PM

As a side topic.... I've been thinking about how to handle resale. How do you guys who shop for used trailers feel? Would you rather see pictures in an ad, and know about previous damage, knowing and seeing how it was repaired?

As ridiculous as people who reply to online ads often are, I'd probably have better luck keeping my mouth shut, asking top dollar, and hoping they don't question the new flooring. (with the old vinyl still visible in a cabinet or two)

Not really my style.... but then I also don't want to loose my tail on it THAT bad.

Quick Step · 09-07-2018, 01:20 PM

It's best to be honest about it or you the seller could possibly be taken to court by the buyers after the purchase for not disclosing the damage, just my opinion.

ALJO · 09-07-2018, 02:08 PM

Honesty goes a long way and you will feel better about it. The dishonest assembly at Jayco will cost them someday dearly. Good luck with your project.

RetiredLEO · 09-07-2018, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick Step

It's best to be honest about it or you the seller could possibly be taken to court by the buyers after the purchase for not disclosing the damage, just my opinion.

The term "used, sold as is, where is" takes care of that. That's how used car dealers, used RV dealers deal with surprises that they did or didn't know about. Whenever I have sold a used car that we have had I always put in the hand written contract sold, one used Color, Year, Make, Model and odo. reading.

I would have a hard time looking myself in the mirror if I didn't disclose it to a prospective buyer. I wouldn't show pictures and if you have the mold eradicated it would be a too-up whether to mention that. Just stating that you had a factory defect and what you did to take care of it puts you on the good side of honesty

FeatherFam · 09-07-2018, 02:48 PM

Be honest. Do what's right. Do not be a part of the problem, folks getting bamboozled.

Girth · 09-07-2018, 05:28 PM

Post a loaded question, and get a bunch of replies.

I guess more are watching this saga than I figured? I do appreciate the input though.

Yeah, not really my style to be shady. I suppose that's a good quality to have, though it sometimes doesn't feel like it.

I guess I'll cross my fingers and hope I can find a buyer who sees the quality/benefit in the work done. At least I will KNOW what condition the traditionally scary area of a used TT is in. Given how it was built originally, it will certainly be more sturdy when I'm done with it too. I was AMAZED to see how those bunks were built. Do NOT climb into those if you are a fat guy.

Even the bottom bunk.... it's only real vertical support is under about 1/3 of one side. The rest of the perimeter is just screwed to the surrounding walls, and only 2 out 4 of those have anything resembling real lumber in them.

Luan and match sticks. Thank god we only put the kids back there.

Seems to be drying out OK, but I can still feel some dampness in the flooring supports. Cool to the touch, so there is still way too much moisture in there for me to feel comfortable covering it up anytime soon. Maybe the heater will help, but I'm thinking it might be at least a week or two.

You may also like: