Seneca SeeLevel Installation

[RVermont]

Good idea. I have a bunch of two inch pipe that will work.

So far the fresh tank is working great. Just have to pull the water compartment apart and get the strip attached to the black tank.

[James AO]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

James,
As Rustynuts mentioned I did install a SeeLevel system on my Seneca TS several years ago. Having lived with two prior motorhomes and the inaccurate probe-style monitors I wanted better for the Seneca. While doing the SeeLevel system I also took the opportunity to clean, organize, and better insulate the tank areas. I also added a hot water recirculation system to reduce water waste when operating without water and sewer hookups, but we use it all the time just to reduce wasting water running it down the drain to get hot.

I installed Garnet's Bluetooth system in mine and like JimD I also installed a second display in the wet bay. My second display is not Bluetooth (doesn't need to be) and it does not incorporate a propane level. But the inside display does have the LP which is sure better than the none our Senecas come with. For a while Garnet discontinued the Bluetooth model, but now it is back. Mine has always worked great in conjunction with the SeeLevel app. Nice to not always have to go to the panel to check the levels. Another advantage of the Bluetooth version (at least my 1st generation) is the ability to program alarms into the system. For example I have mine set at 80% on my black and gray tanks. At that point a buzzer I wired in behing the main panel (in the control center) will sound alerting me that the tanks are getting full. Likewise, I programmed my freshwater tank and propane gauge levels to alarm when they drop to 20%. I also installed a toggle switch to cutout the buzzer since sloshing around would sound the alarm driving down the road! And I wired a small LED into that circuit that illuminates when the buzzer is disabled so I remember to turn it back on when we set up.

All of my sensors were the standard models from what I recall. I tested my "calibration" the old fashioned way by dumping 5-gallon buckets of water down the toilet and sink to see how close the readings (in percentages) were to my actual quantities. It came out pretty close, I hit 100% on both the black and gray tanks with about 3 gallons more I was able to squeeze in before the shower drain "gurgled" and the level was right at the bottom of the toilet. Close enough for me, I would rather they read artificially high than low in those tanks!

As SeeLevel recommends, you tie the wiring feeds together for the water tanks, you tell the sensors themselves what tank they are and they communicate those readings to the "bus" which the display itself splits up into the individual tank reading. That is except for the propane level, it needs a dedicated feed since it operates differently. In my TS's case I used the original black tank feed wires for the propane gauge since my black tank is above my LP tank. But the other three tanks wiring is all spliced together, and I extended a connection from the new black tank sensor (which is in my wet bay) to the secondary display in installed into that area.

Here is a link to the LP sending unit, it is not supplied with the SeeLevel system: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have added a link to my photos which somewhat show the areas involved. On my TS the gray tank is above the rear axle, the black tank is next accessible by removing the wet bay panel, and then the fresh water tank is behind the wet bay opposite the generator. When I did my wiring for The system and the recirculation I used barrier strips to wire the sensors, you might be able see some in my pictures. All the lugs are soldered and heat shrink protected. I have a few more pictures of some aspects of my project if that would help. Happy to answer any questions you might have also!

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/m...lbums1497.html

Since we have a rainy day today in Yellowstone, I’ve had time to progress on my plans to install the BT SeeLevel II system soon. I’ve read everyone’s input and I really appreciate all of the feedback. I have a couple more questions for you Rob: in looking at your photos, I don’t see a pic of the new sensor mounted on the black tank. After removing the control panel in the wet bay, did you mount the new sensor on the black tank surface that faces outwards towards the wet bay control panel? This is the area where the oem sensors are mounted. If you mounted here, was proximity to the oem sensors a concern regarding electrical interference? Next, the manual says the panel needs a hole that is 3” x 1 7/8” for mounting. The manual does not have a pic of the back of the display panel, does it really need a hole this large? Did you use their electrical insulation gasket behind the second display mounted on the wet bay control panel? The Garnet tech told me it is ok to use a non BT display as a secondary display but due no Hand-shaking between the two panels this may result is getting a momentary ERR displaying on the secondary panel occasionally. Has that been as issue for you? Thanks Rob!

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by James AO

Since we have a rainy day today in Yellowstone, I’ve had time to progress on my plans to install the BT SeeLevel II system soon. I’ve read everyone’s input and I really appreciate all of the feedback. I have a couple more questions for you Rob: in looking at your photos, I don’t see a pic of the new sensor mounted on the black tank. After removing the control panel in the wet bay, did you mount the new sensor on the black tank surface that faces outwards towards the wet bay control panel? This is the area where the oem sensors are mounted. If you mounted here, was proximity to the oem sensors a concern regarding electrical interference? Next, the manual says the panel needs a hole that is 3” x 1 7/8” for mounting. The manual does not have a pic of the back of the display panel, does it really need a hole this large? Did you use their electrical insulation gasket behind the second display mounted on the wet bay control panel? The Garnet tech told me it is ok to use a non BT display as a secondary display but due no Hand-shaking between the two panels this may result is getting a momentary ERR displaying on the secondary panel occasionally. Has that been as issue for you? Thanks Rob!

My black tank KIB sensors were "split" as you can see in my picture, some were on the face and some were around the edge. That left me room to space the new sensor away from the original probe locations and away from the nearby corner. I don't have a picture of my installed sensor, but it was placed midway between the old probes on the face and the corner. It reads without issue so far!

The manual-specified size hole is likely what I cut, I can't remember for certain. But I screwed the display directly to my wet bay metal panel. No insulator gasket IIRC. Unfortunately my unit is at my storage location or I'd stick my camera back there! I had my wet bay panel completely out of my unit for paint restoration, so cutting the hole for the display was easy. Would have been much more challenging trying to cut it in place.

The secondary display panel I installed is the 709-P3 display (non-Bluetooth) and I do occasionally get an ERR when I push a button to get a reading. But second push will always get me a proper level reading. Not an issue at all either.

Hope that helps, if you do need more pictures I am going over to load some supplies tomorrow or the next day. Let me know!

[James AO]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

My black tank KIB sensors were "split" as you can see in my picture, some were on the face and some were around the edge. That left me room to space the new sensor away from the original probe locations and away from the nearby corner. I don't have a picture of my installed sensor, but it was placed midway between the old probes on the face and the corner. It reads without issue so far!

The manual-specified size hole is likely what I cut, I can't remember for certain. But I screwed the display directly to my wet bay metal panel. No insulator gasket IIRC. Unfortunately my unit is at my storage location or I'd stick my camera back there! I had my wet bay panel completely out of my unit for paint restoration, so cutting the hole for the display was easy. Would have been much more challenging trying to cut it in place.

The secondary display panel I installed is the 709-P3 display (non-Bluetooth) and I do occasionally get an ERR when I push a button to get a reading. But second push will always get me a proper level reading. Not an issue at all either.

Hope that helps, if you do need more pictures I am going over to load some supplies tomorrow or the next day. Let me know!

Wow... you are fast to respond! Thank you very much for the added input. I don’t cherish the idea of taking out the entire wet bay control panel, but will if necessary. Another question: you went with the 709 display that included a pump switch even tho you already had a pump switch in the wet bay. Did you do that because you wanted to mount the 709 display in the location that was already occupied by the oem pump switch and you would lose the oem pump switch? Finally, the location you described for your new black tank sensor, I see 2 oem sensors in your pic, did you mount between the two, or between the furthest right one and the tank corner? Thanks again Rob!

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by James AO

Wow... you are fast to respond! Thank you very much for the added input. I don’t cherish the idea of taking out the entire wet bay control panel, but will if necessary. Another question: you went with the 709 display that included a pump switch even tho you already had a pump switch in the wet bay. Did you do that because you wanted to mount the 709 display in the location that was already occupied by the oem pump switch and you would lose the oem pump switch? Finally, the location you described for your new black tank sensor, I see 2 oem sensors in your pic, did you mount between the two, or between the furthest right one and the tank corner? Thanks again Rob!

I did place the wet bay display in place of the pump switch that was there.

The new sensor is indeed to the right of the furthest right probe; halfway between it and the tank's corner. And there are 4 original probes, the two on the face and the others "around the corner" of the tank to the left. I'm glad Jayco left me room to do the SeeLevel sensor!

One thing I didn't mention was I also took this opportunity to upgrade the lighting in the wet bay. The one original incandescent bulb was worthless! So I replaced that one light with three Amazon-sourced LED light strips. Two illuminate the face of the wet bay panel, another is behind the panel on the ceiling to light up the sewer connection. Has come in very handy for after sunset arrivals! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And are you planning on enabling a warning buzzer for the programmable alarms? I find it very handy, but if you do I also might suggest adding a switch to cutoff the buzzer. Otherwise it will go off repeatedly while driving due to sloshing if anything is in the black or grey tanks. I added a small toggle switch to cut it off and also added a small red LED next to the switch that "reminds" me the buzzer is cut off.

[James AO]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

I did place the wet bay display in place of the pump switch that was there.

The new sensor is indeed to the right of the furthest right probe; halfway between it and the tank's corner. And there are 4 original probes, the two on the face and the others "around the corner" of the tank to the left. I'm glad Jayco left me room to do the SeeLevel sensor!

One thing I didn't mention was I also took this opportunity to upgrade the lighting in the wet bay. The one original incandescent bulb was worthless! So I replaced that one light with three Amazon-sourced LED light strips. Two illuminate the face of the wet bay panel, another is behind the panel on the ceiling to light up the sewer connection. Has come in very handy for after sunset arrivals! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And are you planning on enabling a warning buzzer for the programmable alarms? I find it very handy, but if you do I also might suggest adding a switch to cutoff the buzzer. Otherwise it will go off repeatedly while driving due to sloshing if anything is in the black or grey tanks. I added a small toggle switch to cut it off and also added a small red LED next to the switch that "reminds" me the buzzer is cut off.

Thanks! When I changed all of my interior lights from halogen to led, I also changed the outside storage bay lights and the wet bay bulbs to led. It helped a lot. But more in the wet bay would definitely be better.

I will likely use the alarm features. I briefly read about them in the user manual but haven’t really studied them yet. The addition of a disconnect switch and an indicator light sound great.

For locations for the wet bay display I am considering your location, and the large empty space directly above the selector valves. I think both would be acceptable.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by James AO

Thanks! When I changed all of my interior lights from halogen to led, I also changed the outside storage bay lights and the wet bay bulbs to led. It helped a lot. But more in the wet bay would definitely be better.

I will likely use the alarm features. I briefly read about them in the user manual but haven’t really studied them yet. The addition of a disconnect switch and an indicator light sound great.

For locations for the wet bay display I am considering your location, and the large empty space directly above the selector valves. I think both would be acceptable.

I think I remember you changed your interior lights. They must have made a running change at Jayco, all but one of my overhead lights inside came as LEDs. The only one I changed inside was in the shower, it was originally halogen. I changed all my compartment bulbs with LEDs but will probably replace them with LED strips activated by door switches like some other owners have done.

[James AO]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

I think I remember you changed your interior lights. They must have made a running change at Jayco, all but one of my overhead lights inside came as LEDs. The only one I changed inside was in the shower, it was originally halogen. I changed all my compartment bulbs with LEDs but will probably replace them with LED strips activated by door switches like some other owners have done.

I ordered my SeeLevel II BT parts today but probably won’t get to install it for a few weeks. For the wet bay display I ordered the 709 version that has both the water heater switch and the pump switch since the price is the same with or without the switches. I figure if I don’t use them for their intended purpose, I can get out the label maker and repurpose them in the future. 🤓

[Rustynuts]

I wish they would have had the BT version when I did mine but then gain with the RB and 4 waste takes I would have had to get 2 panels

[James AO]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

I wish they would have had the BT version when I did mine but then gain with the RB and 4 waste takes I would have had to get 2 panels

That would have really upped the project price a bit! I’m not sure I would appreciate having twice as many waste tanks, but I would love to have my two be at least 50% larger. 🤔

[James AO]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

James,
As Rustynuts mentioned I did install a SeeLevel system on my Seneca TS several years ago. Having lived with two prior motorhomes and the inaccurate probe-style monitors I wanted better for the Seneca. While doing the SeeLevel system I also took the opportunity to clean, organize, and better insulate the tank areas. I also added a hot water recirculation system to reduce water waste when operating without water and sewer hookups, but we use it all the time just to reduce wasting water running it down the drain to get hot.

I installed Garnet's Bluetooth system in mine and like JimD I also installed a second display in the wet bay. My second display is not Bluetooth (doesn't need to be) and it does not incorporate a propane level. But the inside display does have the LP which is sure better than the none our Senecas come with. For a while Garnet discontinued the Bluetooth model, but now it is back. Mine has always worked great in conjunction with the SeeLevel app. Nice to not always have to go to the panel to check the levels. Another advantage of the Bluetooth version (at least my 1st generation) is the ability to program alarms into the system. For example I have mine set at 80% on my black and gray tanks. At that point a buzzer I wired in behing the main panel (in the control center) will sound alerting me that the tanks are getting full. Likewise, I programmed my freshwater tank and propane gauge levels to alarm when they drop to 20%. I also installed a toggle switch to cutout the buzzer since sloshing around would sound the alarm driving down the road! And I wired a small LED into that circuit that illuminates when the buzzer is disabled so I remember to turn it back on when we set up.

All of my sensors were the standard models from what I recall. I tested my "calibration" the old fashioned way by dumping 5-gallon buckets of water down the toilet and sink to see how close the readings (in percentages) were to my actual quantities. It came out pretty close, I hit 100% on both the black and gray tanks with about 3 gallons more I was able to squeeze in before the shower drain "gurgled" and the level was right at the bottom of the toilet. Close enough for me, I would rather they read artificially high than low in those tanks!

As SeeLevel recommends, you tie the wiring feeds together for the water tanks, you tell the sensors themselves what tank they are and they communicate those readings to the "bus" which the display itself splits up into the individual tank reading. That is except for the propane level, it needs a dedicated feed since it operates differently. In my TS's case I used the original black tank feed wires for the propane gauge since my black tank is above my LP tank. But the other three tanks wiring is all spliced together, and I extended a connection from the new black tank sensor (which is in my wet bay) to the secondary display in installed into that area.

Here is a link to the LP sending unit, it is not supplied with the SeeLevel system: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have added a link to my photos which somewhat show the areas involved. On my TS the gray tank is above the rear axle, the black tank is next accessible by removing the wet bay panel, and then the fresh water tank is behind the wet bay opposite the generator. When I did my wiring for The system and the recirculation I used barrier strips to wire the sensors, you might be able see some in my pictures. All the lugs are soldered and heat shrink protected. I have a few more pictures of some aspects of my project if that would help. Happy to answer any questions you might have also!

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/m...lbums1497.html

A couple more questions for when you have time: another rainy day in Yellowstone so I am planning my SeeLevel installation strategy. I’ll leave the water pump wiring out of the discussion because it looks like I just need to move the wires from the pump switch on my existing KIB panel’s pump switch to the main SeeLevel panel pump switch, and in the wet bay move the existing pump switch wiring to the pump switch on my secondary SeeLevel panel pump switch. So, regarding the sensor wiring, and the lp gauge wiring: it looks like the sensors take 2 wires for their bus, a bus wire and a ground wire. It looks like the lp gauge also takes two wires. In looking at the wires coming the back of the KIB display, there are three wires coming from the existing tank sensors, blue wire from the fresh water tank, brown wire from the black tank, and grey wire from the grey tank (clever wire color choices). I’ve downloaded the SeeLevel manual and I see that all the sensors get tied in parallel and then wired to the main SeeLevel panel using 2 wires. SeeLevel also discusses the importance of all of the sensors using the same ground. Rob, you mentioned you repurposed your existing black tank sensor wires to become the lp gauge wires to he main SeeLevel panel. Did you run any new wires to the main SeeLevel panels from the tank areas? Since I haven’t received the SeeLevel system yet, I haven’t torn apart the rig to closely inspect the existing wiring, but at first glance it looks like I need 4 wires from the tank area to the main panel location, but only three are existing (blue, brown, and grey). Did you only need three by using local ground connections at the sensors? If I am overlooking something simple and obvious please be kind. 🤔

[RVermont]

I used all the existing wires. The ground is common to all tanks. You just group the black grey and fresh together and they get connected to a common wire. The lpg is it's own wire. And the the ground runs between all the units.

The sensor comes wired as the fresh tank and then you cut a tab off for the black or gray tank as required .

When you actually look at the current sensors you will see the one third, two thirds and full sensors are wired into a diode that is then wired back to the current I indicator panel..

I just clipped off the diode and then wired in the neutral and indicator wires to the sensor. Then back at the controller I wired the three wires together and fed
The central eystem..

It is great to see actual level rather then gie>essing..

[James AO]

Originally Posted by RVermont

I used all the existing wires. The ground is common to all tanks. You just group the black grey and fresh together and they get connected to a common wire. The lpg is it's own wire. And the the ground runs between all the units.

The sensor comes wired as the fresh tank and then you cut a tab off for the black or gray tank as required .

When you actually look at the current sensors you will see the one third, two thirds and full sensors are wired into a diode that is then wired back to the current I indicator panel..

I just clipped off the diode and then wired in the neutral and indicator wires to the sensor. Then back at the controller I wired the three wires together and fed
The central eystem..

It is great to see actual level rather then gie>essing..

Thanks for the reply! You said you used all of the existing wires, was that only 3 wires total from the back of the rig to the control panel in the front? I’m looking forward to the enjoyment of accurate tank gauges! 😁

[RVermont]

Thos is the connector that was for the old system. I cut this off as I wired the unit up. The white is the common ground and runs to all the sensors. One of the green wires on the right is a line voltage and is hooked up to power the panel so be careful cutting it as it live.

On my unit the orange is the lpg and it gets wired directly to the lpg wire. The other wires red, brown and green get tied together and feed the sensor input.

Good luck it really is a nice upgrade. Before I added these last week I hadn't pushed the buttons to check levels since the first week we owed the unit as they were worthless.

[James AO]

Originally Posted by RVermont

Thos is the connector that was for the old system. I cut this off as I wired the unit up. The white is the common ground and runs to all the sensors. One of the green wires on the right is a line voltage and is hooked up to power the panel so be careful cutting it as it live.

On my unit the orange is the lpg and it gets wired directly to the lpg wire. The other wires red, brown and green get tied together and feed the sensor input.

Good luck it really is a nice upgrade. Before I added these last week I hadn't pushed the buttons to check levels since the first week we owed the unit as they were worthless. Attachment 60346

Thanks for the pic and clarification. I suspect mine will look a bit different, my 2014 did not come with a lp gauge so the harness will likely be different, but I get the idea.

[Lunatic]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

My black tank KIB sensors were "split" as you can see in my picture, some were on the face and some were around the edge. That left me room to space the new sensor away from the original probe locations and away from the nearby corner. I don't have a picture of my installed sensor, but it was placed midway between the old probes on the face and the corner. It reads without issue so far!

The manual-specified size hole is likely what I cut, I can't remember for certain. But I screwed the display directly to my wet bay metal panel. No insulator gasket IIRC. Unfortunately my unit is at my storage location or I'd stick my camera back there! I had my wet bay panel completely out of my unit for paint restoration, so cutting the hole for the display was easy. Would have been much more challenging trying to cut it in place.

The secondary display panel I installed is the 709-P3 display (non-Bluetooth) and I do occasionally get an ERR when I push a button to get a reading. But second push will always get me a proper level reading. Not an issue at all either.

Hope that helps, if you do need more pictures I am going over to load some supplies tomorrow or the next day. Let me know!

Robbbyr I recall in one of your pictures you had to access one of your tanks through the wheel well area. I have to access that area to look for a small leak. What's involved in removing the panel behind the wheel well? Just want to preplan it a little in case I need some supplies I may not have.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by Lunatic

Robbbyr I recall in one of your pictures you had to access one of your tanks through the wheel well area. I have to access that area to look for a small leak. What's involved in removing the panel behind the wheel well? Just want to preplan it a little in case I need some supplies I may not have.

To access the wheelwell area you first unscrew the outer wheel fender cover front and rear. Then it can be raised up to uncover the tire. Once raised it can slide over the top of the compartment doors adjacent to the wheel area. Support it carefully once raised and slid out of the way.

Then you'll see a series of screws securing the access panel behind the wheel cover. Once the screws are out you need to carefully remove that cover. It is stuck on with a very tough adhesive caulk. I used a plastic putty knife to help cut the caulk and free that panel. I will find the name of that caulk and post back.

[Robbbyr]

Sikaflex 221, a polyurethane adhesive sealant.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by James AO

A couple more questions for when you have time: another rainy day in Yellowstone so I am planning my SeeLevel installation strategy. I’ll leave the water pump wiring out of the discussion because it looks like I just need to move the wires from the pump switch on my existing KIB panel’s pump switch to the main SeeLevel panel pump switch, and in the wet bay move the existing pump switch wiring to the pump switch on my secondary SeeLevel panel pump switch. So, regarding the sensor wiring, and the lp gauge wiring: it looks like the sensors take 2 wires for their bus, a bus wire and a ground wire. It looks like the lp gauge also takes two wires. In looking at the wires coming the back of the KIB display, there are three wires coming from the existing tank sensors, blue wire from the fresh water tank, brown wire from the black tank, and grey wire from the grey tank (clever wire color choices). I’ve downloaded the SeeLevel manual and I see that all the sensors get tied in parallel and then wired to the main SeeLevel panel using 2 wires. SeeLevel also discusses the importance of all of the sensors using the same ground. Rob, you mentioned you repurposed your existing black tank sensor wires to become the lp gauge wires to he main SeeLevel panel. Did you run any new wires to the main SeeLevel panels from the tank areas? Since I haven’t received the SeeLevel system yet, I haven’t torn apart the rig to closely inspect the existing wiring, but at first glance it looks like I need 4 wires from the tank area to the main panel location, but only three are existing (blue, brown, and grey). Did you only need three by using local ground connections at the sensors? If I am overlooking something simple and obvious please be kind. 🤔

Sorry, been on the road en route to New Hampshire. I think the others have jumped in and given good feedback.

On my unit I did have a ground that connected the original 3 sensors to the panel area. I used that one tank feed to become the LP signal wire and extended the ground wire to the LP gauge sender also. Then to connect the black tank new sensor I just extended the grey tank signal and ground to it. Then at the panel I bridged the grey and fresh wires and the black is the dedicated LP signal now.

I hope that makes sense!

[Lunatic]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

To access the wheelwell area you first unscrew the outer wheel fender cover front and rear. Then it can be raised up to uncover the tire. Once raised it can slide over the top of the compartment doors adjacent to the wheel area. Support it carefully once raised and slid out of the way.

Then you'll see a series of screws securing the access panel behind the wheel cover. Once the screws are out you need to carefully remove that cover. It is stuck on with a very tough adhesive caulk. I used a plastic putty knife to help cut the caulk and free that panel. I will find the name of that caulk and post back.

Sorry for the delayed response, I was busy myself the past few days. Thank you for that information sir. I've had the fender off and slid over just to have a look at something a couple of years ago. That's as far as I went as it wasn't going to happen at the time. Anyway, I'll get that sealant and find that leak here shortly. Thanks again.