Seneca SeeLevel Installation

[James AO]

Has anyone installed a SeeLevel monitor system on a 2014’ish FS? I’m thinking of ordering one of their new Bluetooth systems, but to do so I need to know the height of each of three tanks in order to specify which length sensors to order. If any one knows the heights you can save me the trouble of having to tear it all apart twice, once to measure and then again to install. Thanks in advance.

[Rustynuts]

I put them on my RB and used all the standard ES sensors that Come in the kit. It is MUCH better than the factory gauges and well worth the effort. I know Rob put them on his 2014 TS so he can comment what he used. My install was a little more involved as we have 2 gray and 2 black tanks but again worth it. Another thing I took the time to do is use a cheap water flow meter on the hose and filled each tank 5 gallons at a time and noted the percentage as I filled them up. I also did this with the fresh tanks. Maybe overkill but when boondocking it’s helpful.

[James AO]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

I put them on my RB and used all the standard ES sensors that Come in the kit. It is MUCH better than the factory gauges and well worth the effort. I know Rob put them on his 2014 TS so he can comment what he used. My install was a little more involved as we have 2 gray and 2 black tanks but again worth it. Another thing I took the time to do is use a cheap water flow meter on the hose and filled each tank 5 gallons at a time and noted the percentage as I filled them up. I also did this with the fresh tanks. Maybe overkill but when boondocking it’s helpful.

Thanks Brian, yours looks great! As soon as I determine my tank sizes I’m going to order the kit. I permanently installed two water flow meters in my wet bay. One measures incoming water, the other measures volume pumped by the water pump. I use them both for the testing I’m doing for the RO system I installed. They’ll come in handy for validating the SeeLevel System after install.

[JimD]

I installed it on my Greyhawk and love it. I added a second display in the outside shower/water fill area which is great when refilling. Also gives you something to look at when dumping.

I highly recommend measuring your tanks before ordering. I had my son measure mine but unfortunately he measured the fuel tank instead of the fresh water tank so I ordered the incorrect size. I ordered through RV Upgrades and they were great in exchanging my sending units. Also when looking at your tanks make sure there is an area on the tank to stick the sender that is away from metal.

On my dual display install I opted to install a little plastic box on a frame rail where I routed all wiring to. I had a nice terminal strip inside where I connected everything. I did not want to just tie bundles of wire together. Ordered my wiring from Amazon.

Also added the propane sending unit which is handy. This setup sure beats the stock idiot lights!

[James AO]

Originally Posted by JimD

I installed it on my Greyhawk and love it. I added a second display in the outside shower/water fill area which is great when refilling. Also gives you something to look at when dumping.

I highly recommend measuring your tanks before ordering. I had my son measure mine but unfortunately he measured the fuel tank instead of the fresh water tank so I ordered the incorrect size. I ordered through RV Upgrades and they were great in exchanging my sending units. Also when looking at your tanks make sure there is an area on the tank to stick the sender that is away from metal.

On my dual display install I opted to install a little plastic box on a frame rail where I routed all wiring to. I had a nice terminal strip inside where I connected everything. I did not want to just tie bundles of wire together. Ordered my wiring from Amazon.

Also added the propane sending unit which is handy. This setup sure beats the stock idiot lights!

Thank you for sharing your experience. I chuckled at the fuel tank part of the story. Question, you mentioned you added a second display so you would have something to look at while you are dumping (ok, I admit I chuckled here too). With the Bluetooth version you can see all of that in their app right? Or did you want a second display in spite of their app? Thanks again!

[jeffro01]

Anyone know if SeaLevel sensors can be integrated into the FireFly system directly on the 2020 Seneca's?

Thanks,
Jeff

[JimD]

The Bluetooth option was not available when I installed mine. Would have like it.

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by jeffro01

Anyone know if SeaLevel sensors can be integrated into the FireFly system directly on the 2020 Seneca's?

Thanks,
Jeff

That is a good question. There are some things that are not compatible with the firefly (Vega Touch) system. One I know of for sure is the wind sensor for the carefree awning. To install the wind sensor the awning controls would have to be removed from the Vega Touch system. This was discussed with Carefree of Colorado because I wanted the wind sensor added when we bought the coach.

Another one to put on hold for now is the Bluetooth control panel for the Xantrex Freedom X Inverter. Although it is only 86.00 and a simple plug and play installation the bluetooth monitor does not retain the bluetooth connection if one closes the inverter app for any reason. A few folks over in the Thor forum found this out after they did the installation. This issue is not necessarily related to Firefly but with the Xantrex control panel and app.

[jeffro01]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

That is a good question. There are some things that are not compatible with the firefly (Vega Touch) system. One I know of for sure is the wind sensor for the carefree awning. To install the wind sensor the awning controls would have to be removed from the Vega Touch system. This was discussed with Carefree of Colorado because I wanted the wind sensor added when we bought the coach.

Another one to put on hold for now is the Bluetooth control panel for the Xantrex Freedom X Inverter. Although it is only 86.00 and a simple plug and play installation the bluetooth monitor does not retain the bluetooth connection if one closes the inverter app for any reason. A few folks over in the Thor forum found this out after they did the installation.

That was going to be my next question, the Xantrex bluetooth add-on... Also you addressed my wind sensor for the awning which is also a bummer. I bring my awning in every night as I'm paranoid a strong wind will come in while we're sleeping and rip it off before anyone wakes up to bring it in...

Thanks,
Jeff

[Robbbyr]

James,
As Rustynuts mentioned I did install a SeeLevel system on my Seneca TS several years ago. Having lived with two prior motorhomes and the inaccurate probe-style monitors I wanted better for the Seneca. While doing the SeeLevel system I also took the opportunity to clean, organize, and better insulate the tank areas. I also added a hot water recirculation system to reduce water waste when operating without water and sewer hookups, but we use it all the time just to reduce wasting water running it down the drain to get hot.

I installed Garnet's Bluetooth system in mine and like JimD I also installed a second display in the wet bay. My second display is not Bluetooth (doesn't need to be) and it does not incorporate a propane level. But the inside display does have the LP which is sure better than the none our Senecas come with. For a while Garnet discontinued the Bluetooth model, but now it is back. Mine has always worked great in conjunction with the SeeLevel app. Nice to not always have to go to the panel to check the levels. Another advantage of the Bluetooth version (at least my 1st generation) is the ability to program alarms into the system. For example I have mine set at 80% on my black and gray tanks. At that point a buzzer I wired in behing the main panel (in the control center) will sound alerting me that the tanks are getting full. Likewise, I programmed my freshwater tank and propane gauge levels to alarm when they drop to 20%. I also installed a toggle switch to cutout the buzzer since sloshing around would sound the alarm driving down the road! And I wired a small LED into that circuit that illuminates when the buzzer is disabled so I remember to turn it back on when we set up.

All of my sensors were the standard models from what I recall. I tested my "calibration" the old fashioned way by dumping 5-gallon buckets of water down the toilet and sink to see how close the readings (in percentages) were to my actual quantities. It came out pretty close, I hit 100% on both the black and gray tanks with about 3 gallons more I was able to squeeze in before the shower drain "gurgled" and the level was right at the bottom of the toilet. Close enough for me, I would rather they read artificially high than low in those tanks!

As SeeLevel recommends, you tie the wiring feeds together for the water tanks, you tell the sensors themselves what tank they are and they communicate those readings to the "bus" which the display itself splits up into the individual tank reading. That is except for the propane level, it needs a dedicated feed since it operates differently. In my TS's case I used the original black tank feed wires for the propane gauge since my black tank is above my LP tank. But the other three tanks wiring is all spliced together, and I extended a connection from the new black tank sensor (which is in my wet bay) to the secondary display in installed into that area.

Here is a link to the LP sending unit, it is not supplied with the SeeLevel system: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have added a link to my photos which somewhat show the areas involved. On my TS the gray tank is above the rear axle, the black tank is next accessible by removing the wet bay panel, and then the fresh water tank is behind the wet bay opposite the generator. When I did my wiring for The system and the recirculation I used barrier strips to wire the sensors, you might be able see some in my pictures. All the lugs are soldered and heat shrink protected. I have a few more pictures of some aspects of my project if that would help. Happy to answer any questions you might have also!

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/m...lbums1497.html

[Robbbyr]

I forgot to add that both my inside and outside displays incorporate the water pump switch. Easy to wire up into my 3-switch original system.

[James AO]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

James,
As Rustynuts mentioned I did install a SeeLevel system on my Seneca TS several years ago. Having lived with two prior motorhomes and the inaccurate probe-style monitors I wanted better for the Seneca. While doing the SeeLevel system I also took the opportunity to clean, organize, and better insulate the tank areas. I also added a hot water recirculation system to reduce water waste when operating without water and sewer hookups, but we use it all the time just to reduce wasting water running it down the drain to get hot.

I installed Garnet's Bluetooth system in mine and like JimD I also installed a second display in the wet bay. My second display is not Bluetooth (doesn't need to be) and it does not incorporate a propane level. But the inside display does have the LP which is sure better than the none our Senecas come with. For a while Garnet discontinued the Bluetooth model, but now it is back. Mine has always worked great in conjunction with the SeeLevel app. Nice to not always have to go to the panel to check the levels. Another advantage of the Bluetooth version (at least my 1st generation) is the ability to program alarms into the system. For example I have mine set at 80% on my black and gray tanks. At that point a buzzer I wired in behing the main panel (in the control center) will sound alerting me that the tanks are getting full. Likewise, I programmed my freshwater tank and propane gauge levels to alarm when they drop to 20%. I also installed a toggle switch to cutout the buzzer since sloshing around would sound the alarm driving down the road! And I wired a small LED into that circuit that illuminates when the buzzer is disabled so I remember to turn it back on when we set up.

All of my sensors were the standard models from what I recall. I tested my "calibration" the old fashioned way by dumping 5-gallon buckets of water down the toilet and sink to see how close the readings (in percentages) were to my actual quantities. It came out pretty close, I hit 100% on both the black and gray tanks with about 3 gallons more I was able to squeeze in before the shower drain "gurgled" and the level was right at the bottom of the toilet. Close enough for me, I would rather they read artificially high than low in those tanks!

As SeeLevel recommends, you tie the wiring feeds together for the water tanks, you tell the sensors themselves what tank they are and they communicate those readings to the "bus" which the display itself splits up into the individual tank reading. That is except for the propane level, it needs a dedicated feed since it operates differently. In my TS's case I used the original black tank feed wires for the propane gauge since my black tank is above my LP tank. But the other three tanks wiring is all spliced together, and I extended a connection from the new black tank sensor (which is in my wet bay) to the secondary display in installed into that area.

Here is a link to the LP sending unit, it is not supplied with the SeeLevel system: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have added a link to my photos which somewhat show the areas involved. On my TS the gray tank is above the rear axle, the black tank is next accessible by removing the wet bay panel, and then the fresh water tank is behind the wet bay opposite the generator. When I did my wiring for The system and the recirculation I used barrier strips to wire the sensors, you might be able see some in my pictures. All the lugs are soldered and heat shrink protected. I have a few more pictures of some aspects of my project if that would help. Happy to answer any questions you might have also!

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/m...lbums1497.html

Thanks Rob! I’m sorry I didn’t reply sooner but I just now saw your responses. Usually I get an email from the forum when someone replies. This time I either missed it or didn’t get it. As usual thanks for taking to time for such an in depth reply, the details always help immensely. This is our first trip since installing our washer dryer. Suddenly the need to know how much capacity remains in the grey tank is critical. I’d love to install it while on the road, but it is probably wiser to wait until we get home at the end of summer.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by James AO

Thanks Rob! I’m sorry I didn’t reply sooner but I just now saw your responses. Usually I get an email from the forum when someone replies. This time I either missed it or didn’t get it. As usual thanks for taking to time for such an in depth reply, the details always help immensely. This is our first trip since installing our washer dryer. Suddenly the need to know how much capacity remains in the grey tank is critical. I’d love to install it while on the road, but it is probably wiser to wait until we get home at the end of summer.

I see you are on the road, very nice!

I would concur you should probably wait till you get back, it can become quite involved since you likely will want to "clean things up" in those areas as well as installing the system itself.

Enjoy your travels!

[RVermont]

I am in the process of installing the seelevel on my 37ts.

Once you open the rig up you have to clean the mess up. I am amazed that things dont fail more often on these units. The gas lines just draped on top of the plastic wheel wells looks like sloppy and dangerous if you have a blowout. No insulation and twice as much furnace venting as needed. Lots to do under there, the install looks easy compared to the other projects.

A couple questions for those that have done this. The install manual calls for 18 gauge wiring but the wires from the current system appear to be 20 or 22. Did you just use the exsisting wires or run new 18?

In process of removing the current black mounting panel to accept the new seelevel display. I have all the wires marked and ready to remove them from the panel except for the two indicator lights these seem to be glued to the panel. Did you just cut the wires and reconnect or is there a way to get these lights off?

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by RVermont

I am in the process of installing the seelevel on my 37ts.

Once you open the rig up you have to clean the mess up. I am amazed that things dont fail more often on these units. The gas lines just draped on top of the plastic wheel wells looks like sloppy and dangerous if you have a blowout. No insulation and twice as much furnace venting as needed. Lots to do under there, the install looks easy compared to the other projects.

I certainly can sympathize with you there! When I took my rig apart I cleaned and arranged everything I could. Supported the piping, wiring, and heating ducts. I also put sheet rigid foam under my gray tank and several layers of Reflectix on top of the reinstalled wheelwell liners. I also put layers of the Reflectix on the inside of the plastic covers (under the tilt-up wheelwell fender.) before reinstalling them. And used spray foam to seal everything up. It has to help protect the area in colder weather!

A couple questions for those that have done this. The install manual calls for 18 gauge wiring but the wires from the current system appear to be 20 or 22. Did you just use the existing wires or run new 18?

I reused the existing wire, in my 2014 the leads to the display were about 18 gauge. The original KIB sensor wires at the probes were smaller but the Jayco wiring was larger. In my attached picture you can see some of the gauge wiring laying across onto the tire and can see it is at least 18ga in mine. I wonder if in later units they downsized it?

In process of removing the current black mounting panel to accept the new seelevel display. I have all the wires marked and ready to remove them from the panel except for the two indicator lights these seem to be glued to the panel. Did you just cut the wires and reconnect or is there a way to get these lights off?

I can't recall my display having any wires glued to my panel. So I can't offer any help there!

When I wired everything I used barrier strips with soldered and heat-shrunk spade terminal lugs. I didn't want any plain crimped connections to come apart once I closed everything back up!

[RVermont]

Theanks Rob

Here are a few photos of the spaghetti in the cabinet.

One is of the glued on indicator light. I am just going to cut them so can work on the face plate and modify it to take the seelevel gauge.

While the wiring into the current level gauges is 20 or 22, I found that when I pull the cabinet apart I found the connector in the side wall. The supply side of the connector is 18 or 14 gauge which saves a bunch of time.

So I've my soldering gun ready, insulation for the wheel well, pipe insulation, ridgid hard ventilation piping to replace the dryer vent and some spray foam to seal the mess when I am done. If I had new connectors I would remove about 10 ft of unneeded wiring and reduce the mess under the cabinet but that will be a project for another day.
Attachment 60035Attachment 60036Attachment 60037

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by RVermont

Theanks Rob

Here are a few photos of the spaghetti in the cabinet.

One is of the glued on indicator light. I am just going to cut them so can work on the face plate and modify it to take the seelevel gauge.

While the wiring into the current level gauges is 20 or 22, I found that when I pull the cabinet apart I found the connector in the side wall. The supply side of the connector is 18 or 14 gauge which saves a bunch of time.

So I've my soldering gun ready, insulation for the wheel well, pipe insulation, ridgid hard ventilation piping to replace the dryer vent and some spray foam to seal the mess when I am done. If I had new connectors I would remove about 10 ft of unneeded wiring and reduce the mess under the cabinet but that will be a project for another day.
Attachment 60035Attachment 60036Attachment 60037

For some reason your pictures don't display, I get redirected with an error message. And I really wanted to see those stuck-on wires!

[RVermont]

Trying again.
Got the fresh tank installed and the control back plate cut and reconfigured. I really wish I had time to shorten the wires. Each bundle is about 6 ft longer than needed. With all the wires in the bundles there is probably 150 extra ft of wiring hanging on the switches and sitting under the cabinet floor.

[Robbbyr]

My 2014 tank level dispay was quite different, I know it did not have the wires permanently attached like your does!

While mine had some "excess" wire in the harness the amount certainly does not compare to your pictures. Being that each inch of wiring likely costs Jayco, I wonder why they do that? Maybe one harness for all Senecas now and a different floorplan might need more?

[Rustynuts]

Something I suggest while you have the wheel well opened up is drill holes into the adjacent compartments and run a piece of at least 1.5” pvc pipe through the wheel well area as a chase for any future upgrades. I wish I would have thought of this the first time I opened the wheel wells up but I did it the second time and it has already came in handy for running a couple wires through since!