Jay Feather Micro 166FBS Inverter

[TomC_AZ]

From what I have read and understand the new micros are all inverter pre-wired. Mine has the 190w panel and charge controller and I would like to add an 2000w inverter and some lithium batteries to allow for some additional options. However I cannot find where that "pre wire" cabling is done. Does anyone know where its at on this model?

I have asked Jayco and they cant even tell me where the fuse is for the tongue jack yet... (I believe they are talking to the team that builds the trailer now to try and find out for me). But I have not received a straight answer yet for this wire. (at least yet, Im still working with them) My hope is that someone else already knows. I read in another thread that someone found one of the wired under the bed, I took the small panel off but that was just the hot water. I did not take off any of the larger panels but will if that is whats needed.

The install should be pretty straight forward and I just dont want to spend the $$ on the dealer when their service has not been great either. For one thing they wont even talk without scheduling to bring the trailer in. Unfortunately they are about 75miles away one way.

I am a first time trailer owner and learning a lot about the lack luster service that is found in this industry, its very sad but I would bet its ripe for improvement if someone did that!

Worst case I might tap into the main power input from the shore power plug. I'm just not sure I want to go through all of that build out and cost yet.

Anyway any help on this would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
Tom

[JayLo]

Would love to know where that is. It is wired for an 1800w inverter which will do most things but no AC. Jayco wiring is pretty horrible, so I would trace everything back if you can. Let us know what you find out! I would like to do one too!

[TomC_AZ]

I found the pre wire/wire it is in what I would call a very stupid location!!

Under the bed, right up by the front there is a cut out for access to the water heater. The wire is right under there. Honestly I believe I might just take out my mini fridge that is outside and turn that into a solar storage area and run wires directly to/from the power center and add more batteries to maybe be able to run the Ac as well... But I dont see any easy way of getting an inverter into where this "pre-wire" is. You could use the pass through space but that then eats up that area.

[JayLo]

Rad and Sad. My buddy just went through a whole “inverter, solar, battery wiring” class. Eventually I might be able to get him to look at it and will post if I learn something!

[surfermsd]

Originally Posted by TomC_AZ

I found the pre wire/wire it is in what I would call a very stupid location!!

Under the bed, right up by the front there is a cut out for access to the water heater. The wire is right under there. Honestly I believe I might just take out my mini fridge that is outside and turn that into a solar storage area and run wires directly to/from the power center and add more batteries to maybe be able to run the Ac as well... But I dont see any easy way of getting an inverter into where this "pre-wire" is. You could use the pass through space but that then eats up that area.

Does that go to specific outlets? I have a 166fbs as well and trying to figure out how I setup an inverter.

[EJH]

Originally Posted by surfermsd

Does that go to specific outlets? I have a 166fbs as well and trying to figure out how I setup an inverter.

Looks pretty straightforward, besides the inverter being in the cabinet with the water heater, lol. At least the wires are label with the directions of outlets vs source.


Looks like it would go to all the outlets, but hard to tell for sure. I've got my 166FBS arriving in a few weeks. I'll take a closer look on my rig.


TBD if I will be adding an inverter myself. Besides the microwave, I'm not sure what else 120V I would need to power. Maybe laptop chargers.

[TomC_AZ]

For me the inverter is just for having options... One of those that I would like (being in AZ) is to have the ability to run AC, even if for a short time off grid and not use a generator such as during the night.

Since I know that the current location, at least to me, seems useless. I am now rethinking everything and possibly turning the outside mini fridge bay into a solar bay. it will easily fit 4+ lithium batteries along with all of the other needed equipment. Someone else has talked about running wires through the cabinets etc.. I believe that all I would have to do is reroute the solar wires (which are under the trailer) and then tap into the shore plug which goes direct to the electrical controller box. Once I have those wires into this bay then the rest is all self contained within and also allows for any additional panels (if needed) to be added up in the entertainment center area. It also protects from theft and weather/cold etc...

This new trailer has me thinking check it out..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8mvRRYXSFY

The CEO/Owner of the company comes from the Jayco family, so this will feel really familiar :-) They have a fully enclosed solution along with a all aluminum box up front for propane and batteries (thought that was illegal but guess not). Anyway it is 100% off grid capable with a 3000w inverter, with AC just needs to have the soft start.

Now if I can just find the wheel chocks that they have mounted on the frame!!

[JayLo]

Originally Posted by TomC_AZ

For me the inverter is just for having options... One of those that I would like (being in AZ) is to have the ability to run AC, even if for a short time off grid and not use a generator such as during the night.

Since I know that the current location, at least to me, seems useless. I am now rethinking everything and possibly turning the outside mini fridge bay into a solar bay. it will easily fit 4+ lithium batteries along with all of the other needed equipment. Someone else has talked about running wires through the cabinets etc.. I believe that all I would have to do is reroute the solar wires (which are under the trailer) and then tap into the shore plug which goes direct to the electrical controller box. Once I have those wires into this bay then the rest is all self contained within and also allows for any additional panels (if needed) to be added up in the entertainment center area. It also protects from theft and weather/cold etc...

This new trailer has me thinking check it out..

The CEO/Owner of the company comes from the Jayco family, so this will feel really familiar :-) They have a fully enclosed solution along with a all aluminum box up front for propane and batteries (thought that was illegal but guess not). Anyway it is 100% off grid capable with a 3000w inverter, with AC just needs to have the soft start.

Now if I can just find the wheel chocks that they have mounted on the frame!!

I watched that when it came out too and I was impressed. There are a few things, but a lot of pluses. I might get away with the inverter location, because I have the 171BH with a bunch of space under the dinette with the water pump.

[Comanche_Moon]

See my post here: https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...nfo-90932.html

Went down the inverter rabbit hole.

In Summation:

* Inverter pre-wire is a 14g Romex 120v loop of wire. Max watts 1800.
* Inverter will require a transfer switch
* Doesn't void warranty but won't be covered if aftermarket
* RV One will not install aftermarket. Lazydays will as long as its unopened
* Inverter would power: TV, Fridge, Bedroom only (on the 166FBS its the pop-up in headboard/footboard)
- If you have 12v Fridge and 12v TV it will only power the pop-up receptacle. Cannot say this is cost effective for my needs at this point.

Not sure what your equipment is but the inverter pre-wire really is just a marketing gimmick after going deep into research on the 166FBS.

Powers very little and can only handle 1800w. If it powered the whole RV it would be worth it. But, TV, Fridge, and bedroom...well if you got the 12v TV and Fridge like I do...I'd be spending $1000+ to power a single outlet and usb receptacle.

Good luck.

[deepsea5]

Originally Posted by Comanche_Moon

See my post here: https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...nfo-90932.html

Went down the inverter rabbit hole.

In Summation:

* Inverter pre-wire is a 14g Romex 120v loop of wire. Max watts 1800.
* Inverter will require a transfer switch
* Doesn't void warranty but won't be covered if aftermarket
* RV One will not install aftermarket. Lazydays will as long as its unopened
* Inverter would power: TV, Fridge, Bedroom only (on the 166FBS its the pop-up in headboard/footboard)
- If you have 12v Fridge and 12v TV it will only power the pop-up receptacle. Cannot say this is cost effective for my needs at this point.

Not sure what your equipment is but the inverter pre-wire really is just a marketing gimmick after going deep into research on the 166FBS.

Powers very little and can only handle 1800w. If it powered the whole RV it would be worth it. But, TV, Fridge, and bedroom...well if you got the 12v TV and Fridge like I do...I'd be spending $1000+ to power a single outlet and usb receptacle.

Good luck.

Agreed. Probably better off spending another $200.00 or so and be able to power the whole RV; with bonuses of also having an automatic transfer switch, load management and battery charger. https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Multi...01AD2MJSK?th=1

[surfermsd]

Originally Posted by Comanche_Moon

See my post here: https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...nfo-90932.html

Went down the inverter rabbit hole.

In Summation:

* Inverter pre-wire is a 14g Romex 120v loop of wire. Max watts 1800.
* Inverter will require a transfer switch
* Doesn't void warranty but won't be covered if aftermarket
* RV One will not install aftermarket. Lazydays will as long as its unopened
* Inverter would power: TV, Fridge, Bedroom only (on the 166FBS its the pop-up in headboard/footboard)
- If you have 12v Fridge and 12v TV it will only power the pop-up receptacle. Cannot say this is cost effective for my needs at this point.

Not sure what your equipment is but the inverter pre-wire really is just a marketing gimmick after going deep into research on the 166FBS.

Powers very little and can only handle 1800w. If it powered the whole RV it would be worth it. But, TV, Fridge, and bedroom...well if you got the 12v TV and Fridge like I do...I'd be spending $1000+ to power a single outlet and usb receptacle.

Good luck.

Thank you, very helpful. I think I'm just going to add another 12v outlet & a few USBs. Then pick up a 12v laptop charger.

[TomC_AZ]

Thanks for the reply's and input and sorry for a long reply, lots of thoughts.

I don't have the 12v fridge however at some point in the future (far future) might put one in depending on how the electric/gas one does, especially when its hot outside. Knowing which plugs the prewire goes to now that even leads me more down the path I have started to go. Just bypassing all of the "pre wire" and go direct.

My goal is to throw a few more solar panels up on the roof, I have been looking at adding two more of these (trailer came with one 190w from go power): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ZJD14Y8Y&psc=1

That would give me a total of 570 watts possible for quicker battery charging. Since the trailer has the Thule rack up on top it has a very easy way to mount without having to drill any holes in the roof and deal with sealing anything. Then just tap into the existing roof wires with splitters and continue using the installed Go Power 30a PWM charge controller. (might upgrade that to a MPPT but use it first to save $$ and see how it does)

I am looking at the Victron Multiplus 3000 and the Xantrax Freedom XC Pro 3000. Both have their pluses and minuses but offer similar features etc. Pair up with a Hutch Mountain soft start for the AC and will have no issues. (also helps with the Honda EU2200i gen already has propane mod) https://www.hutchmountain.com/collec...4-soft-starter


From everything I have read/watched you would need at least three 100ah batteries for a 3000w inverter. That is why I am shooting for four. I have been looking at these batteries: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ZJD14Y8Y&psc=1

According to the MFG they do have the low temp charge protection that I know some other inexpensive options don't have. I also plan to supplement that with a separate temp sensor from whichever company I go with for inverter and charge controller. At the end of the day I just cant get myself to pay for a battleborn or lion when the internals and spec appear to be the same. Check out Will Prowse teardown YouTube videos.. This may end up being a mistake, but I don't think so from what I have researched.

Again the goal would be to tap into the shore power plug and then reroute wires such that the inverter would become the switch and send power to the main trailer power center. Only using inverter function when wanted/needed. ie hot night where you want AC but dont want to disturb neighbors and run a generator. I also want to be able to use anything else within the trailer when wanted such as the microwave or for travel safety the refrigerator running off 110 vs gas while towing. Or a hair dryer for my wife...

Another goal for all of this is to be able to view all data on my phone or tablet via Bluetooth. Its very convenient to have the ability to change or do things while in bed or sitting around the campfire.

So far I have the following that I can monitor:

• JayCommand - all tanks, awning and slide in/out, water pump, hot water heater gas or elec. option, all lights including dimming of awning and inside lights, fully climate (including external temp) but setting up and turning on AC or furnace, TPMS, refrig/freezer temp, and propane levels. All of these work from within and outside the TT and inside TV.

• Victron battery smartshunt shows all battery info you could ever want(all Bluetooth)

• Honda EU2200i has Bluetooth to show run hours, watts etc and ability to turn off (since its propane (never had gas in it) and connected to the trailer quick connect I dont have to worry about shutting off gas etc when it is turned off and clogging the carb)

• Hutch Mountain easystart with Bluetooth (on order) allows multiple functions one of which is how much power draw/usage AC is consuming

• Inverter - either one of the above mentioned do Bluetooth and allow for parameters to be set and viewing of power info.

I'm sure I will find something else to add to this list, I take suggestions as well. Now if I could just invent the Bluetooth campfire start and extinguish app for those cold mornings/nights!!

[DK1]

I think I'm in the same inverter rabbit hole... (maybe actually rat hole). I contacted Jayco about the "inverter prewire" and was told basically 3 things. 1. Just hook an inverter to the pre-wire and you're good to go as is, no other changes. "Once an inverter is installed it runs itself and you do not have to do anything to make it work". 2. any modifications to wiring voids the trailer warranty.... 3. contact the dealer.

The inverter, they say, powers the bed outlets, the refrigerator, and TV. Hmmm my refrigerator, per the VIN and model I provided to them, is 12v as is the TV...

So I responded back asking for clarification on the "inverter pre-wire" as 1. I didn't understand how or what Jayco did as regards the "prewire" that would isolate the converter from the inverter to prevent a current loop. 2. If I hooked up to shore power with the inverter hooked up, it seems to me I'd be sending 120v power TO the inverter.

Jayco responded that the "units are prepped" for prewire and that they don't supply or recommend any particular brand.

Does anyone have the wiring diagram for the 171BH or 166? It's starting to seem like adding an inverter is a large, complex, expensive project if done so that the inverter is added seamlessly and works in an idiot proof, automatic fashion.

Thanks.

[TomC_AZ]

I dont have any diagram however there is a sticky on the form somewhere that I pulled and edited to give a high level view of how its all connected. Here is the link, https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...gram-2503.html

Again I modified it when I downloaded a copy to make it match what I have listed in my power control box. At least Jayco did an excellent job in labeling all of the breakers and fuses in mine.

With this being my first trailer and being brand new we purchased the extended war. that the dealer offered. What I have learned is that those appear to me to be basically worthless as you have to be able to get into the dealer (can take months) and then they decide whats covered. I am seriously thinking about getting that refunded as I believe we all "are the warranty" as owners from what I have seen/read. Thus who cares if its voided....

With that being said just make sure you understand what that means. Also I ripped up the boards under the bed, etc trying to find out what is where etc... I did find that there are no longer fuses used even for the tongue jack, its all breakers. Those by the way are by this pre wire, wire and the water heater.

For the 166 the water heater is just inside of the pass through storage, I could easily tap the wire and route things to a inverter there. Room is available to do that. That should not void any warranty as it is using their wire. But does not give options like using AC etc off bat if wanted.

As for brands I like what Xantrax and Victron offer. All of the others I dont think offer the same level of functionality, but that is for a fully involved system. For a simple inverter to run off the prewire I would stick with a 2000w Xantrax (their 1000w models are what most RV companies use offer in their solar package, or Go Power). There are a lot of cheap models but stick with a pure sinewave and get something that provides feedback either with a screen or bluetooth so you know whats going on electrically.

I could easily rewire the micro so that it could run off the inverter as the TV outlet is close and in a cabinet. The fridge wouldn't help you but in my case I have the 120/LP model which would allow me to run safer while driving. But I bet you still have a 120 outlet under the outside vent and that could possibly be used for a light or something outside if needed/wanted.

[DK1]

Thanks kindly, I think that that wiring diagram assumes the outlets you are powering are not the same outlets that are (or could be) powered by shore power. They are 'stand alone' outlets dedicated to being driven from the inverter, which is certainly not a bad design. I think you'd need a
switch for the inverter since it continues to draw battery power even when it's not powering anything 120v.

The challenge with the Jayco inverter prewire (from what I can surmise) is the 120v out from the inverter powers the TT's hot bus bar and so creates a current loop if the converter is not switched out. OR you do as per the drawing, you power dedicated inverter driven outlets. It's not a bad design and avoids a ton of complexity (and cost) to integrate with the existing 120v infrastructure. That may be the only practical, cost effective solution.

I think given I'm the newbie I'll just skip any thoughts of an inverter. The Jayco support person now tells me any addition such as an inverter is considered a "modification"....

I guess I figured since the unit is "prewired" (and other similar units from other companies COME WITH INVERTERS) that it wouldn't be such a big deal. Seems like it is.

Thanks again!

[Mbfd478]

They put it there because it probably is the closest place to the battery that's protected.

[DK1]

The inverter pre-wire is still not completely clear to me. If anyone has traced their prewire to where it connects at the distribution panel, could you post the connection description or better yet take a pic of it?

[TomC_AZ]

I have not actually traced it all out however in looking at the power center and the labels. Taking into account what we have learned from others on what Jayco says is covered on that wire are the refrigerator and a few other outlets. For my trailer this is breaker A as seen in the attached pic. It does not include the Microwave as it wouldnt be on that same wire i.e. it has its own breaker (in this case breaker C).

This is part of the reason why a number of us dont believe this "pre wire" is worth anything or worth using.

[DK1]

That is VERY, very interesting.... Good pic. I tend to agree, there's not complete 'truth in lending' from Jayco regarding the pre-wire...

[DK1]

I looked up the power center ... the converter/charger is apparently built-in. I think... the charge description seems to suggest it is specifically made for lead/acid batteries. (The WFCO website has products specifically for lithium ion batteries).

"The converter normally provides a constant target output voltage of 13.6 VDC (nominal) to power all the branch circuits. However, it is current limited, and if the output (load) current reaches its maximum, the output voltage will drop as necessary to hold the converter’s maximum output current level (the Amperage rating) without exceeding it.

If the output current reaches its maximum (normally caused by a discharged battery), this will cause the converter to go into Bulk Mode, which means the target output voltage will change to 14.4 VDC and a timer will start. Although the converter is outputting 14.4 VDC, you will not be able to read that on a voltmeter due to the voltage-current relationship. From the paragraph above, as load current increases, output voltage decreases. The actual output voltage will not rise until the load current is reduced, which happens naturally as the battery charges or if 12 VDC appliances are turned off.

Bulk Mode will be maintained until the current draw drops to approximately five Amps, or until the timer reaches four hours (whichever happens first). Then the target output voltage is changed back to 13.6 VDC for Absorption Mode. Lights that are powered from the output may change brightness slightly at that time."

Getting more interesting all the time!